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Offline LukeTom

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EU Referendum
« on: February 20, 2016, 06:22:12 PM »
Anyone have any thoughts on the upcoming referendum? In-Out-Dontgiveafuck?

Offline torontoflatlander

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Re: EU Referendum
« Reply #1 on: February 20, 2016, 06:59:30 PM »
I will answer as Dontgiveafuck but honestly I don't fully grasp what it means if they do decide to leave? Maybe it's jumping off a sinking ship that is the Euro economy?
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Offline amishrob

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Re: EU Referendum
« Reply #2 on: February 21, 2016, 02:07:07 AM »
in. everything i've read that is at least semi impartial says the uk economy is strong because of eu not inspite of it. plus scotland would likely leave the uk if we leave the eu and that is not great either.
i agree with this man. http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2016/feb/20/how-to-argue-against-brexit-eu-fate-europe-uk-at-stake

my boss is hungarian and he is worried what will happen if 'out' happens, so he is applying for british citizenship even though at the moment he doesn't need to.

Offline Liam

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Re: EU Referendum
« Reply #3 on: February 21, 2016, 07:37:37 AM »
In. I've yet to hear a single convincing argument for out. The Kippers will bang on about the 'loss of sovereignty' and how the the UK is more democratic, while simultaneously ignoring the fact that we have an unelected head of state and an unelected second chamber in this country anyway. There's an argument to be made that we don't enough of a say in the EU, but that's in part to do with the fact that a load of the MEPs we have are Kippers and Eurosceptic Tories who don't bother trying to advance anything. I think most people on the out side are mainly motivated by their dislike of immigration, even though there is more immigration from outside the EU than in and the modest economic growth is linked to immigration anyway (GDP has increased with no increase in GDP per capita).


There is no coherent strategy about how the UK would function after leaving that makes any sense. I've heard people advocate the 'Norway model', which is effectively being in the trading zone and accepting the same terms, yet not having any vote whatsoever within the EU as to how things are run. That's worse than we have now. The other alternative I've heard is that the EU will accept us a trading partner without needing to meet any of its regulations to do so, which is utterly deluded. The EU would not accept that because it's both a shit deal for them and also sets a precedent for other countries to do the same, which could bring about its complete dissolution.


There are arguments to be made against trading agreements like TTIP, but the biggest advocates of it within the EU are Tories and there's not a chance in hell they wouldn't sign up to it even if we leave, it would just be under less favourable conditions because we would have a much smaller bargaining position. That actually is my main motivation for voting in, truth be told. While the Tories have a majority in parliament, the EU acts as an effective dampener on their worst excesses. The EU holds its members to far higher standards of employment rights and environmental practices than the Tories ever would. Cameron's recent negotiations were presented in the press mainly about the 'emergency brake' bullshit on in-work benefits (which doesn't make sense and won't work), but very little was written about the arrangements that would mean the UK wouldn't be included in a Europe-wide system of banking regulations. That's the only argument you know the Tories give a fuck about.

The only reason I would vote out would just be to utterly shaft Cameron and while that's very inviting, it's not a good enough reason. For purely selfish reasons I'm also against an exit. I'm leaving the country next year and it would fuck up my plans a little bit, as me and my girlfriend would have to get married first and I'm not a big fan of weddings.

Offline Allah

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Re: EU Referendum
« Reply #4 on: February 21, 2016, 11:51:07 AM »
In. Bring on the months of predictable debate.
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Offline Kinchy

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Re: EU Referendum
« Reply #5 on: February 21, 2016, 01:41:53 PM »
Basically what Liam said.

People are absolutely insane if they think Europe will be nice to us if we leave, our trading will go down the pan, migration will remain the same (except France may stop giving a fuck patrolling our borders), Scotland will leave (or somehow rejoin the EU), and we will end up having to pal up with the USA even more (i.e. suck up to them).

We aren't the superpower some people seem to think we are, we don't have as much clout as we used to, and cannot compete with other developing nations for producing goods. And we need to wind our necks in and stop acting like we are still in the colonial era.
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Offline slvtn

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Re: EU Referendum
« Reply #6 on: February 21, 2016, 02:59:47 PM »
In. Can't really see any reason why it'd would be helpful for the UK and Europe either to end their partnership.
The EU itself should be reformed and going back to their basic intention: simplifying life within Europe and sharing common values instead of stupid economical decisions.
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Offline ginger

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Re: EU Referendum
« Reply #7 on: February 21, 2016, 04:34:52 PM »
Britain ain't shit anymore, back in your box lads and do as you're told.
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Re: EU Referendum
« Reply #8 on: February 21, 2016, 05:48:06 PM »

Offline G

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Re: EU Referendum
« Reply #9 on: February 22, 2016, 08:25:32 AM »
In.

Leaving would be stupid. Cant be arsed to go into chapter and verse...

I'd rather have the laws backstopped by the rest of europe, I quite like the idea of human rights.

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Offline LeonLikesToRock

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Re: EU Referendum
« Reply #10 on: February 22, 2016, 11:57:17 PM »
Why don't you guys go back into the empire game? You were doing so well.
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Offline JFax

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Re: EU Referendum
« Reply #11 on: February 23, 2016, 01:38:46 AM »
There are so many different nationalities in the UK, many Europeans, especially in London. Will they be kicked out, get some kind of residency or will they not change the free mobility?
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Offline Liam

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Re: EU Referendum
« Reply #12 on: February 23, 2016, 04:46:57 AM »
Nobody knows. There's no plan. I can't see any way the EU would accept us leaving, drop the free movement of people and still be a trading partner. Most of the 'out' campaign are rabid xenophobes who blame immigration for society's ills and talk about the free movement of people as being one of the country's major problems. However, they won't be in charge in the case of the UK leaving the EU and there is no concrete plan of how we would realistically operate in the event of an exit. There's also nearly as many UK citizens living in other EU countries as there are other EU citizens working in the UK and nobody's even mentioned whether they'd all have to come back either.

Offline G

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Re: EU Referendum
« Reply #13 on: February 23, 2016, 06:13:23 AM »
Nobody knows. There's no plan. I can't see any way the EU would accept us leaving, drop the free movement of people and still be a trading partner. Most of the 'out' campaign are rabid xenophobes who blame immigration for society's ills and talk about the free movement of people as being one of the country's major problems. However, they won't be in charge in the case of the UK leaving the EU and there is no concrete plan of how we would realistically operate in the event of an exit. There's also nearly as many UK citizens living in other EU countries as there are other EU citizens working in the UK and nobody's even mentioned whether they'd all have to come back either.

NHS would pretty much collapse if we chucked out all the EU nurses, especially in London hospitals.

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Offline Liam

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Re: EU Referendum
« Reply #14 on: February 23, 2016, 01:33:28 PM »
If you were thinking of voting in, then maybe this amazing* campaign song from the outers will win you over.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BBi-KXc0CRk


*I was amazed. This can't be real.


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Re: EU Referendum
« Reply #14 on: February 23, 2016, 01:33:28 PM »

 

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