Louisiana

[rrose]

This whole robbery thing that keeps getting brought up, you know that it has nothing to do with the murder right? And that the owner of the store, nor the employee called 911... http://www.dailykos.com/story/2014/08/18/1322560/-Ferguson-Store-Owner-Says-NO-ONE-From-His-Store-Called-Cops-To-Report-Cigar-Theft

Some other important links/facts: http://land-of-propaganda.tumblr.com/post/102057205628

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2849133/PIERS-MORGAN-farce-Ferguson-Darren-Wilson-6ft-4in-210lb-five-year-old-history.html (Though Piers Morgan sucks, he says some decent things here)

Again, this is more then just an issue about Wilson killing Brown, but it's an issue of race.

[BilboBaggins]

It shouldn't be. If you take away the fact he was black and you even rule out he was at the store stealing shit, the guy who had the altercation with wilson chose to confront him and payed the price. No it shouldn't have escalated to him getting killed but that's just how things played out.

[condrbkr]

I work at my parent's liquor store in a not so well off neighborhood these days, I can tell you right now the reason the owner or the employees didn't call the cops is cause altercations like what Micheal Brown did at the store are a daily occurrence. People will flex their muscles from time to time to get what they want, a 2 dollar cigarillo isn't really worth the fight. Customers like Micheal Brown are a dime a dozen, in poor neighborhoods being a thug will get you left alone. If people were to fight over things like that, they'd be much more dead people.

Everyone is a bit of 'thug', it's just how it is, even the kindest people will put up a hard shell. There has been a more than a few instances where someone stole from us and my fellow employee caught them and if they give them a bit of lip, he just beat his ass and threatened to shoot him. People have to know the store is not to be messed or people will be coming here just to steal and possible robbery cause they here someone in the neighborhood is soft. Plus calling the cops isn't an option unless someone is dead or literally robbed the store in gunpoint, in a neighborhood that distrusts cops, it's terrible for business.

Even most the lawful are wary of the cops. There is a lady that comes in, her husband was shot and killed. They labeled his death as 'gang violence' when she knows for a fact he stopped running with those people. I guess there is a feeling that the police don't give the innocent real justice and they feel like their voice isn't heard. If the police wants results, they get the results, even if it means cutting corners to do so. I guess to a lot of people Micheal Brown played out is another case of a police cutting corners to get what they wants.

I can't blame the cop either, I'm sure as a white boy in blue in a neighborhood like Ferguson is tough. There is so much pent up hatred by a few members of these communities for such people. That white boy is more or less fighting a war in a foreign land and it's gotta be scary as shit. In a community where violence is so prevalent, he did nothing different than what others do all the time. Unfortunately for Darren Wilson being the police, he is expected to hold himself to a higher standard, and rightfully so. The police are an easy scapegoat to the greater problems these communities face. Sure they do add a lot to it but its not as cut and dry as people would like to think.

[Cole]

Thomas031, you're absolutely right. Why would you pull a lethal weapon when your intent isn't to cause harm? If a bad guy pulls a gun on you, you'll definitely shoot a warning shot, in a direction that may or may not ricochet off something and possibly injure/kill someone else. Get a fucking clue. In a LEO world, you pull your weapon, you're prepared to use it.

Gun law indoctrination? No, I live in Canada, nice try jackass. Far different gun laws than the US. You must have way more time at the range than I do, and more time doing simulations and practice run through of tactical scenarios, with live, blank and simmunition. You're right though, in a situation where you could potentially die, you're going to just disarm someone and shoot their foot so they can't keep coming at you, or shoot the gun out of their hands.

Maybe next time you decide to type some idiotic dribble, think and do some research into how police officers are trained this side of the pond. In no way can any place like Holland, UK, France, Italy, etc. Be compared to the US in terms of Law Enforcement. The way the US is vastly different from the rest of the world, and that's before taking the "race war" into account.

[rrose]

It shouldn't be. If you take away the fact he was black and you even rule out he was at the store stealing shit, the guy who had the altercation with wilson chose to confront him and payed the price. No it shouldn't have escalated to him getting killed but that's just how things played out.

Why shouldn't it be? It's another unarmed black teenager that got killed (by a cop) and no justice was served. Black people are still an oppressed group of people in the States as much as people want to think otherwise, and it's even more prevalent in the justice system you guys have going on down there. They have a right to be upset, and they have a right to make this very much about racism and to let people know that blacks lives matter.

I'll just leave this here though cause it has decent info on a bunch of stuff about this case (include the race thing) http://www.vox.com/cards/mike-brown-protests-ferguson-missouri/ferguson-protests-police-racism

[Kinchy]

So the Tamir Rice video has been released, and clearly shows that the police made no effort to disarm the boy, instead just shooting him down immediately.

http://www.theguardian.com/us-news/video/2014/nov/26/cleveland-video-tamir-rice-shooting-police

Not only that, but they lied about it saying they had given him three warnings, and that he was part of a large group of young people. Obviously there are questions as to why a 12 year old boy has a replica gun, but when America glorifies gun ownership so much I am not even a little surprised.

[andreas]

You're not supposed to shoot at a suspect in the legs because the department can get sued for a fuckton.

[ginger]

Backward Arse Fucking Hickville. Rename your country to that.

[cmc4130]

. . .
 That white boy is more or less fighting a war in a foreign land and it's gotta be scary as shit.
. . . .

This is telling.   African-Americans are not foreign.   I know exactly what you mean though.  A lot of white people do have this mentality.  They literally say things like "such and such neighborhood is like a third world country."

You see why Black people would be so upset by this?  They are as American as American gets and they're still being treated by the cops as if the cops are European colonialists in Africa, along the lines of a famous (but false) quote "The natives are restless." http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=557415

I would say that Officer Wilson's assertion that he felt "fear" and was claiming to being overpowered was the sub-conscious cue for a lot of people.  How could a 6'4" tall police officer be that fearful of another unarmed 6'4" man?  Only in the cultural context of white people's fear of black anger. 
 
Which again, your statement is so telling: "I'm sure as a white boy in blue in a neighborhood like Ferguson is tough. There is so much pent up hatred by a few members of these communities for such people."

White people feel their fear is justified, and jurors sympathize with the white police officer over that.  They are not empathizing with black people's fear of the police in the same way.

But, I'm not stupid.  I get it.  If I worked in that liquor store in that neighborhood, there would be lots of times I'd be scared too. 

And that's the same in every country that has "bad neighborhoods."  Canada and Europe included.  It's just that the thugs and police in those countries have a lot fewer guns.

Community policing is the theory that police who patrol certain areas should be culturally from or connected to those areas.  This wasn't the case in Ferguson--where all the officers are white and from a different part of St. Louis.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Community_policing    What if the police officer was from that neighborhood and maybe even knew Michael Brown?  http://www.blackpolice.org/  Likely that the whole thing could have played out differently.

 

[cmc4130]

My view from across the pond is that Americas attitude towards authority, and separately towards black people, is massively fucked up

Black people are treated as inherently different, as if somehow it is genetic that they have such a different culture. Part of me wonders if this is just a denial of accepting any responsibility for the situation of some ghettos and that America is responsible for such a large percentage of the black community being so poor.

Secondly, positioning police and other 'authority' figures on some kind of pedestal, immune to being held responsible for their actions, and a culture which covers up their mistakes which are no doubt prejudice influenced.

What worries me more is how much the UK is moving towards a US mentality in many other ways, which I fear will end up in similar situations

Like:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Death_of_Mark_Duggan
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2011_England_riots
?

[Kinchy]

I'm not sure what you are implying, however there was at least a long inquest into the death of Mark Duggan and it is one of the very rare times that police officers have used lethal force. I was unhappy with the eventual verdict, and it is a good example of the direction I don't want our police force heading in but I feel that the officers involved were asked to fully account for their actions.

[condrbkr]

This is telling.   African-Americans are not foreign.   I know exactly what you mean though.  A lot of white people do have this mentality.  They literally say things like "such and such neighborhood is like a third world country."

You see why Black people would be so upset by this?  They are as American as American gets and they're still being treated by the cops as if the cops are European colonialists in Africa, along the lines of a famous (but false) quote "The natives are restless."

I'm not implying these neighborhoods aren't part of America, but a different part of America a lot of people aren't exposed to. Texas is different from California, Chinatown is different from Tucson. This country is too big and diverse to be one thing but...

Your right a lot of people view the ghettos in a different light than from what they view the rest of America. Whatever bad shit happens in the ghettos, as long as it stays in the ghetto, it's their problem, like it's not something that is happening all across America. Something bad happens in 'mainstream' America the news are trying to fix it for weeks.

I would say that Officer Wilson's assertion that he felt "fear" and was claiming to being overpowered was the sub-conscious cue for a lot of people.  How could a 6'4" tall police officer be that fearful of another unarmed 6'4" man?  Only in the cultural context of white people's fear of black anger. 
 
Which again, your statement is so telling: "I'm sure as a white boy in blue in a neighborhood like Ferguson is tough. There is so much pent up hatred by a few members of these communities for such people."

White people feel their fear is justified, and jurors sympathize with the white police officer over that.  They are not empathizing with black people's fear of the police in the same way.

All that stuff is beyond me honestly, like I said earlier I don't think things are as cut and dry as a lot of people like to believe. I don't really get what it means to be black or white in , cause for fucking sure most people don't know what it means to be yellow and consider yourself American(that's a headache in itself). I do wish people could have more open discussions on the matter instead rushing to jump one one side whenever something happens between a white person and black person. In my experience dealing with people of all types of backgrounds, cultures, and races(perks of moving a lot and living in DC), most people are to busy with their lives to care about trivial shit like that and that's a good thing.

[Kinchy]

Except it isn't trivial shit when people are being killed because of it, it's daily oppression

[cmc4130]

My view from across the pond is that Americas attitude towards authority, and separately towards black people, is massively fucked up

Black people are treated as inherently different, as if somehow it is genetic that they have such a different culture. Part of me wonders if this is just a denial of accepting any responsibility for the situation of some ghettos and that America is responsible for such a large percentage of the black community being so poor.

Secondly, positioning police and other 'authority' figures on some kind of pedestal, immune to being held responsible for their actions, and a culture which covers up their mistakes which are no doubt prejudice influenced.

What worries me more is how much the UK is moving towards a US mentality in many other ways, which I fear will end up in similar situations

If I may ask . . . what ways do you think the UK is moving towards a US mentality? 



 

[Finn the Human]

My view from across the pond is that Americas attitude towards authority, and separately towards black people, is massively fucked up

Black people are treated as inherently different, as if somehow it is genetic that they have such a different culture. Part of me wonders if this is just a denial of accepting any responsibility for the situation of some ghettos and that America is responsible for such a large percentage of the black community being so poor.

Secondly, positioning police and other 'authority' figures on some kind of pedestal, immune to being held responsible for their actions, and a culture which covers up their mistakes which are no doubt prejudice influenced.

What worries me more is how much the UK is moving towards a US mentality in many other ways, which I fear will end up in similar situations

If I may ask . . . what ways do you think the UK is moving towards a US mentality?

Basically the conservatives want to privatise even more of the UK including the NHS. With the NHS, the plan so far has been decrease funding and use the increasingly poor results as ammunition to support the dickfaces argument while at the same time kind of hide your investments/paychecks in/from private healthcare.