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Offline JFax

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Pedal design devolving?
« on: February 19, 2015, 04:05:27 PM »
Im in a food coma after eating way too many tacos. In my state of distress I fled to my safe haven on the sofa and started thinking.

When I started riding some 10-15 odd years ago all entry level bikes came with cheap wellgo plastic pedals. One of the first upgrades the kids who got hooked on riding got was to get aluminum pedals. The most sought for pedal were the sealed magnesium pedals.

As the Twisted PCs had a sudden second rise some years ago the high end designs have given way to the mass of cheap plastic pedals. While I myself have retreated to the plastics due to it being easier on my shins, easier on my wallet and arguably lighter I cant stop thinking about the turn of the market as a whole.

So while many companies try to slightly improve on the design I still feel like the market has devolved. The recent trend is, in a way, a further devolvement as also the bearings are removed.

Idk, mostly just a thought. What do you guys think? Has the turn to cheap wear and tear products hindered companies in making more refined designs/products?
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Offline @ss4oLe

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Re: Pedal design devolving?
« Reply #1 on: February 19, 2015, 04:30:39 PM »
Hard to improve on the DX style/shape.

I seriously have tacos 6 days a week.

Offline Kram 101

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Re: Pedal design devolving?
« Reply #2 on: February 19, 2015, 04:46:33 PM »
I somehow went a month without tacos. Never again.

I think the biggest thing is price.  I've got a set of unsealed aluminum trailmix pedals because I won't ride plastic pedals but didn't went to spend a crazy amount on something I know is going to get trashed.  I really like the slim aluminum pedals like the Diety's and others but can't justify spending $100+ on something I step on.

Offline cmc4130

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Re: Pedal design devolving?
« Reply #3 on: February 19, 2015, 04:53:25 PM »
. . .  Has the turn to cheap wear and tear products hindered companies in making more refined designs/products?

Yes.  But, maybe BMX has also had a tendency for low-tech, at least on certain things.   

1. Seatposts and seats.  Sure, pivotal is "simple," but the mtb and road worlds still have high quality microadjust posts.

2. Grips i.e. not lock-on.    They exist, but it tends to be the bmx race scene that actually use them.  http://www.jrbicycles.com/storefront/index.php?act=viewCat&catId=313  Empire offers no lock-on grips:  http://www.empirebmx.com/catalog/grips

3.  Helmets.  Once again the street/park/trails side of things only offers the pro-tec style skate helmet.
http://www.empirebmx.com/catalog/helmets whereas bmx racing has full face options https://www.jrbicycles.com/storefront/index.php?act=viewCat&catId=140. It's not like airing 12 feet out of concrete bowls is any safer for your head, it's just a (sub)cultural thing.

As far as pedals, the mtb world (esp. DH/Freeride/Slope) has been progressing right along.  There are a ton of platform pedals to choose from, all claiming various kinds of tech advantages..... http://www.jensonusa.com/Search?q=platform pedals#brm-search?request_type=search&search_type=keyword&q=platform%20pedals&l=platform%20pedals

« Last Edit: February 19, 2015, 05:07:32 PM by cmc4130 »

Offline Prodigal Son

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Re: Pedal design devolving?
« Reply #4 on: February 20, 2015, 12:31:17 AM »
I refuse to believe that plastic pedal are safer for my shins. There isn't any difference in the area and contours smacking your shins. If anything, I get hit in the shin more when my shit loses its grip and all my friends that have plastic have a slick ground down side.

Does anyone actually think the plastic can deform to your shin and absorb some of the impact?

Offline LeonLikesToRock

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Re: Pedal design devolving?
« Reply #5 on: February 20, 2015, 01:40:41 AM »
I think a good and affordable PC pedal is an evolution from expensive and shitty metal pedals. I paid way too much for some primo tenderisers when I was in my early/mid teens and then they literally fell apart on me after a short time (not even on my grind side). I think my first set of Odyssey PC pedals outlasted my sealed Stricker pedals.
If you want high quality metal pedals, they're still out there - especially in the mtb world. I wouldn't want to grind on them but I've got some Canfield Brothers pedals on the MTB and they are the shit.
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Offline dersou ousala

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Re: Pedal design devolving?
« Reply #6 on: February 20, 2015, 02:33:39 AM »
i use some MTB pedals (spank spike). Honestly, it change the feeling a lot and in a good way. it feels like going with from 11.75 to a 11.5 bottom bracket, but the axle is still high. Also the foot being closer to the pedal axle, and the platform being huge, it SO comfortable. Honestly i just can't go back to bmx pedal now. i can adapt quickly to different bike (not like some friends who freak out when they take off a 2mm spacer under the stem) but i feel every change in geometry, and going with a ultra thin pedal is must.
And it's really strong, at least for me. had it for more than 2 years without problem, just really small amount of play but like almost any bmx pedals after a while. So i guess bmx company could take a hint from those kind of pedal. Or maybe (probably) there is no market for nerds like me haha

Offline dude...

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Re: Pedal design devolving?
« Reply #7 on: February 20, 2015, 03:56:54 AM »
totally depends how you use them.
if we are talking direct flat side of pedal striking leg,i still dont believe plastic pedals are much easier on the shins

its the pins that cause the damage, but plastic pins can still pierce your skin so unless theyre thrashed out with no grip on them (which i personally hate the feel of and dont know how people ride them like that, but preference), they can still slice you up.
they also get nicked and gouged out easily if you snag them on obstacles while performing bicycle stunt manoeuvres, leaving sharp/spiky bits of sticking out plastic that can tear you up.

if you grind on your pedals, plastics slide good, are cheap and no biggie to replace. metals last longer but grind differently, personal preference.

i still reckon jcpcs are the best for pedal grinders in the long run cos you dont have to buy a whole new set of pedals once you wore down one side of one pedal.
cut the stock pins down though cos they are super long and will kill you if you catch one of those to the shin.
axles are also warrentied against bending and breaking (if i remember correctly) so you basically only need to keep a spare body around (2 pedal halves=same lifespan as 2 sets of cheap plastic pedals), and some spare bolts/nuts (/pins).
you can also make the bodies last longer by leaving the bolts in the outside edge of the pedal-the metal wears down much slower (steel) which dramatically slows down the speed at which the plastic can be ground off

if you seek a pedal that has no wobble/play in it, good luck to you
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Offline tecnic1

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Re: Pedal design devolving?
« Reply #8 on: February 20, 2015, 07:11:16 AM »
God I love tacos.

Really though, the option of treating pedals as a wear item is long overdue.  For whatever reason, I've always been really hard on pedals, and I've bent a lot of spindles, and I've never had a lot of luck working on pedals as I can never get the lock nut tight enough without overtightening the cone.  I also hate the way bent spindles feel, so to get pedals that (1) are cheap to replace and (2) come with much stronger spindles is fucking tits.

I don't see the really nice, sealed aluminum pedals ever going away, but to have the option of buying Twisted PCs 5 pairs at a time and treating them like grips is great.  I literally just change them out because I've used them for a few months and they feel a little warn down or rattle a little too much.

The kids in my hood love it too, cause they are all running around on barely used Twisted PCs.

I really like the idea of bushing pedals also.  Anything that reduces part count is a good thing in my eyes, and the ease of maintence is absolutely ideal.  However, I haven't been impressed with any of the bushing pedals so far.  I own a pair of BPEs, and I manager to get them to not rattle, but the bodies are just too thick for my taste, and I don't like that if I crash riding trails, I get a ton of dirt into the bushings. I'm also kind of getting the impression Animal gave up on them.  The Kinks look too much like the PC Rubens, and I really hate the way those feel.  I've got high hopes for the Dugan pedals.


Offline mattywatty

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Re: Pedal design devolving?
« Reply #9 on: February 21, 2015, 02:56:34 PM »
I think the de-evolution of parts is a symptom of current riding trends. From what I can tell, most of the people on this forum probably remember the 2004-2008ish era where everyone wanted to ride like Mike Aitken. Riding smooth was the name of the game and therefore it didn't seem like a waste of money to buy $100 Ruben pedals or have fancy Profile components with all the expensive Ti shit because being "good" meant not making a sound when you landed. Everyone wanted a "dialed" bike.

Now, all the children are into super abrasive street riding that absolutely trashes your bike. It's all about landing flat from huge heights and grinding everything possible. Thus, disposable cheap parts are a lot more appealing than something fancy and expensive. Additionally, it seems like the primary market for bmx companies is about 3 years younger now than it was 10 years ago, and younger kids inherently have no fucking money.

The only reason I don't have fancy machined sealed pedals is because I love my shoes too much. Im super picky about riding shoes and want them to last for as long as possible. Plastic pedals cause virtually no wear in shoe soles,whereas metal pins start taking chunks out pretty quickly.

Offline G

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Re: Pedal design devolving?
« Reply #10 on: February 23, 2015, 09:53:05 AM »
I'm definitely into thinner pedals. They feel much more stable since you are closer to the axis of rotation. If you imagine strapping a 2by4 to your pedal and trying to ride, you can imagine how you would have to balance over the axles like a cat-walk-model on stupidly high heels. Well go the other way and make the pedal as thin as possible and it feels grippier and harder to slip off.

The problem with making the pedals thinner is that there is only so much room for bearings and a strong axle, and personally I dont want to sacrifice axle strength, so by a process of elimination the bearings are the place to make space savings. MTB is actually leading the way on this; and if MTBers can put up with the small efficiency losses of a bushing over a rolling element bearing when they are riding long distances for hours on end and pedalling up big hills, then I really think that the average BMXer putting in a few pedal strokes before pumping into a transition for the rest of the run, can handle the few percent loss in efficiency OK.

I am loving the Dugan pedal. Had aluminium prototypes on my MTB for well over a year now and have never noticed them feeling less smooth than my old sealed bearing Trailmix, but have definitely noticed the improvement in grip/foot-stability. I dont like the plastic ones on my BMX as much as the old JCPC's just because of the difference between plastic and metal pins, but that is just personal preference, when I have the choice I will definitely put the other ones on my BMX too. We are just tidying up the last few production tools for the Dugan's and they should be out this summer. It takes a long time to do a new pedal when you are doing everything new from the ground up. Including the new (patented) bearing system which lets you adjust the bearings to remove play in the same way as a traditional pedal.

Yes these pedals will be fairly cheap, but that's because we are designing out the cost and I would happily put the aluminium version up against fancy CNC'd MTB flat pedals costing 4 times as much. Yes they aren't as "machined looking" but in every other respect they kick ass...

:)
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Offline Allah

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Re: Pedal design devolving?
« Reply #11 on: February 23, 2015, 04:26:22 PM »
Metal pedals FO LIFE.

Edit: although I do like grinding curbs with Boris Bike pedals.
« Last Edit: February 23, 2015, 04:29:24 PM by Allah »
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Offline Narcoleptic Insomniac

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Re: Pedal design devolving?
« Reply #12 on: February 23, 2015, 07:29:00 PM »
I wanna see some photos of the Dugan pedals.

Offline blueee

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Re: Pedal design devolving?
« Reply #13 on: February 23, 2015, 09:08:52 PM »
cut the stock pins down though cos they are super long and will kill you if you catch one of those to the shin.
fucking piss, why does no one do this?

then they all complain theyre too sticky

Offline dude...

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Re: Pedal design devolving?
« Reply #14 on: February 23, 2015, 11:23:32 PM »
cut the stock pins down though cos they are super long and will kill you if you catch one of those to the shin.
fucking piss, why does no one do this?

then they all complain theyre too sticky
because bmxers are pussies
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Re: Pedal design devolving?
« Reply #14 on: February 23, 2015, 11:23:32 PM »

 

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