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Offline Kurt Hohberger

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22 inches
« Reply #105 on: March 06, 2012, 10:52:30 AM »
http://www.bmxunion.com/blog/interview/insight-sm-22-bikes/

Interview with Moeller about the 22" bikes S&M / Revenge is doing. Frame, fork, rims, tires and spokes.
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Offline Sasha

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« Reply #106 on: March 06, 2012, 11:39:34 AM »
I just clicked that on Facebook and clicked it again on here. I'm smart.

Offline KillSeth

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« Reply #107 on: March 06, 2012, 11:41:23 AM »
Kurt, the Union is awesome. Keep up the good work.

Offline @ss4oLe

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« Reply #108 on: March 06, 2012, 02:49:55 PM »
Real nice!
can someone post that pic of Closser here? This thread needs more action shots.

Curious what changes they're thinking about. That prototype rides amazingly well, as is.

Offline G

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« Reply #109 on: March 06, 2012, 03:07:18 PM »
Quote from: @ss4oLe;3526076
I'm far from a pro. Just some guy who is testing a bicycle.....

I do have HUGE respect for G/Odyssey however, the way G was talking he was all but shutting this thing down. Sure it's a niche market but if one company is making the tires, they'd be getting all the sales. Looks like those sales will be going to Fit/Revenge....

This really was not my intention, please re-read what I wrote and try to see where I am really coming from.

As I already stated many times, I would LIKE to see this size develop and have a chance to prove itself. I then went on to try to have a mature conversation about whether I thought it was likely and I (stupidly it turns out) thought that people might be interested in what I see as the manufacturing pitfalls and also the potential performance pitfall. 22" could be better than 20" but the difference between a good tyre and a bad one could easily be enough to hide a lot of benefits...

I have been to tyre factories. I have seen the equipment used. I have had senior staff at the factory slag off their own "basic" assembly machines and then 2 minutes later asked them which machines make our 20" tyres and have them look sheepish and explain that it WAS the "basic" machines he just slagged off. (thankfully this has changed now and there are 20" versions of the "super duper" machines and it is these that have made OUR tyres for the last several years (3 or 4) and the quality has gone up and the QC rejection rate down as a result).

I think of this as "interesting information about how tyres are made", you somehow see it as an attack on the 22" size.

I KNOW that if WE walked into the factory and said we wanted to do a 22" tyre that we would have them try to talk us out of it for some considerable time. I realise that you may think that Odyssey is a big company, but to these tyre makers we are "small potatoes", we make a few thousand tyres a year in their factory that makes MILLIONS of other tyres, they do not want to make investments in new machines if they even VAGUELY think that it is not going to become HUGE. They would NOT be stoked on it and as a project it would probably not go well for us.... However I think that S&M/Fit ordered some improbably huge number of tyres last year so they may have got a better reception than I imagine... If so then that is great. If the tyre makers are cool with doing the size and either already have or set-up good machines for the assembly then I will have been proved totally wrong and I will be more than happy to say so... and yes we might even "jump on the bandwagon" and make parts for the size.

My point has always been that rims, frames, forks, spokes, tubes etc are all easy, it all hinges on the tyres, so if that is sorted then there is no reason it cant become super popular and maybe even take over from 20" as 29" is being predicted to do from 26" in MTB (though personally I will be sticking with 26" for a while yet).

I thought long and hard after typing this before posting it. I really dont want to further enrage you, I have better things to do, but at the same time I feel like there is an interesting conversation to be had here and I think it is worth one last crack at having it. I hope this makes sense and seems reasonable...

:)
G.
« Last Edit: March 06, 2012, 03:09:42 PM by G »
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Offline @ss4oLe

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« Reply #110 on: March 06, 2012, 03:20:16 PM »
:cheers:
It's all good, G. :)

and there's no doubt in my mind that we'll see 22 inch Odyssey tires/rims one day.
« Last Edit: March 06, 2012, 03:21:41 PM by @ss4oLe »

Offline G

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« Reply #111 on: March 06, 2012, 06:21:06 PM »
Haha, that article is awesome.... Shows how far BMX has come... at least we dont have to worry about what race category it fits into...

The article also mentions having different sized front and rear wheels, something that motorbikes often do (did?) been tried on MTB's too... slightly smaller back wheel would allow shorter stays and front would still monster truck over stuff.... ah the possibilities are endless...

Right I am off to design a mountainbike with a 29" front wheel and 22" rear... ;)

:)
G.
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Offline Cole

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« Reply #112 on: March 06, 2012, 06:34:33 PM »
Quote from: G;3536043

Right I am off to design a mountainbike with a 29" front wheel and 22" rear... ;)

:)
G.


I'll take two.
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Offline @ss4oLe

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« Reply #113 on: March 06, 2012, 06:38:07 PM »
Damn!

I guess that S&M was almost stolen! Guy broke into the shop that it was at, stole a bunch of S&M parts as well as that bike! As he was leaving the shop, the police dogs caught him. He's in jail now and the bike is safe.

Never should have let it out of my site.....

Offline hmcoleap

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22 inches
« Reply #114 on: March 08, 2012, 03:28:06 PM »
Love when I find a thread about 22's and my bike has already beaten me to it!  
That '83 article is great, those are the exact tires I have on my ride, the Kenda 22x2 snakebellies -- cool to see what they were on BITD

   -Manny

Quote from: cmc4130;3536026
for some historical perspective.....  kevin jones sent me a link to this article about the 1983 Aerolite 22"...

this is Manny's customized 22"wheel Trick Star over on bmxmuseum. he used nos Kenda tires.


...

Offline Kurt Hohberger

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22 inches
« Reply #115 on: March 08, 2012, 05:06:50 PM »
Quote from: KillSeth;3535930
Kurt, the Union is awesome. Keep up the good work.


Thanks! Appreciate all the support!
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Offline Sasha

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22 inches
« Reply #116 on: March 09, 2012, 04:01:08 AM »
Quote from: G;3535960
I have seen the equipment used. I have had senior staff at the factory slag off their own "basic" assembly machines and then 2 minutes later asked them which machines make our 20" tyres and have them look sheepish and explain that it WAS the "basic" machines he just slagged off. (thankfully this has changed now and there are 20" versions of the "super duper" machines and it is these that have made OUR tyres for the last several years (3 or 4) and the quality has gone up and the QC rejection rate down as a result).


Can we go back to the basic machines and 11.50 tires please?

Offline G

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« Reply #117 on: March 09, 2012, 06:13:29 AM »
Quote from: Fed_Tom;3536872
Can we go back to the basic machines and 11.50 tires please?


Not unless you can get oil back down to $60 a barrel and all other raw materials to follow suit...

How much is a loaf of bread now compared to then? Price increase is about the same...

The better machines are quicker and produce less rejects, so the extra cost of buying them is about balanced by the savings, we just get better tyres..

:)
G.
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Offline Sasha

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« Reply #118 on: March 09, 2012, 09:34:33 AM »
Quote from: G;3536885
Not unless you can get oil back down to $60 a barrel and all other raw materials to follow suit...


I'll try my best.

Offline Switchblade

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22 inches
« Reply #119 on: March 09, 2012, 09:49:47 AM »
Quote
tubes are available on Amazon.com:

we have one of these at our shop for some reason, i think it was accidentally ordered. I remember asking myself "what the hell kinda mutant wal-mart bike does this fit in?", i guess i got my answer.
http://vimeo.com/user287276/videos">Good Stuff

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...this means you picked up a dirty bum, who, ironically enough, bummed you with his filthy peter.

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22 inches
« Reply #119 on: March 09, 2012, 09:49:47 AM »

 

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