Messages

106

The Bike Shop / Re: What bars on 24" S&M ATF Build?

« on: January 26, 2015, 05:03:50 PM »

Any of you guys out there build up a 24" S&M ATF or similar freestyle build?

Just wondering what size of bars you went with and how you like them.

We are building one up with a customer and went with a set of S&M Bruiser 6.5" rise bars, with a front load stem. They seem like a really good choice.

We also tried out a pair of S&M 8" Slam bars, and although they felt big, they weren't out of the question. Is any one out there running a bar around this size on 24"?

I think it'll depend a lot on the person.  What does the customer ride now?  Is he tall?  What kind of riding is he doing?

I think the main thing I've noticed though, is that on new school 24" builds (Sunday Model C & Wave C, S&M ATF 24, Liquid Feedback 24, WTP Atlas 24", Stolen Saint 24", etc.)  people are not doing the old 5" and 6" cruiser bar height. Most guys are going for 7.25, 7.75", 8" and even some 9"s and 10"s.


So, I'd probably say, if he's right in the middle, then go with the 7.75" Sunday 24umphXL  bars:
http://www.empirebmx.com/sunday-24umph-xl-handlebar


Traditional cruiser bars: who needs ‘em?
http://cruiserrevolution.com/2011/03/01/traditional-cruiser-bars-who-needs-em/

Let's see your New School Street 24 inch!
http://bmxmuseum.com/forums/viewtopic.php?id=359815

107

The Bike Shop / Re: Mid school "collecting"

« on: January 21, 2015, 11:47:17 PM »

It is actually pretty awesome to ride.  You would think it would be a lot heavier than it really is.  I will have to try to weigh it again to get exact numbers, but I felt like it was around 35lbs.  Also, the only thing I felt weird about when riding it was the bar height.  But after a little bit of cruising around on it I started to notice less and less.  She ramps like a champion.  Can't wait for it to get warm again so I can take it to more skateparks.  This was at my local right after it was built:

That bike had slammed 13.5" cs, if I remember right, before other a lot of other frames were going that short....

108

The Bike Shop / Re: dh bike that rides like a bmx

« on: January 21, 2015, 06:30:10 PM »

TRANSITION Double in action:
http://vimeo.com/50998782


I have both the Black Market Killswitch and the Transition Double and I like the Double better--it pedals better and feels more responsive jumping--although tweaking the shock settings and psi can make a huge difference.

I feel like 1X9 gearing on the Double makes a pretty rad all-around bike that is still highly jumpable.

109

Bike Gallery / Re: Cruiser Warning: Liquid Feedback V.2

« on: January 19, 2015, 11:56:44 PM »

very nice!

110

The Bike Shop / Re: dh bike that rides like a bmx

« on: January 13, 2015, 10:54:38 PM »

the reason i say rides like a bmx bike is becuase when i go to the dh trails, i dont really have fun on the bumpy technical shit, but i absolutely love the lines with smooth-ish paths and all the jumps which are much funner to ride on the lightweight full suspension bikes ive ridden compared to the super tough and heavy , super-slack-headtube dh bikse i also have ridden

so yeah, smaller, lighter and twitchier is better

and of course i was talking 2nd hand

This description is more along the lines of a Slopestyle bike, AKA a full suspension Dirt Jumper with a bit more travel.

Exactly. 

If you want 4"/4" (that means 4" rear suspension and 4" front suspension) then you have options like:
Black Market Killswitch
TRANSITION Double (out of production, but still a strong favorite)
Specialized P.Slope
NS Soda Slope

If you want a little more travel, e.g. 6"/6"
TRANSITION Bottle Rocket
Scott Voltage FR10, FR20

etc.

111

The Bike Shop / Re: Cruiser guys, ATF 24" vs Wave C vs Liquid, input please.

« on: January 05, 2015, 03:21:38 PM »

. . .
Liquid arrives next week.

Built it up yet?   

112

The Bike Shop / Re: Spanish BB Length

« on: January 05, 2015, 03:19:07 PM »

Same question just came up on a different forum and a Google search brought me back here. What's weird is that Profile's website now has a tube spacer for Spanish listed as
1.985" (which converts to 50.419mm) rather than the typical 48mm tube spacer for a 68mm bb shell.

http://www.profileracing.com/estore/product.php?productId=63

113

The Bike Shop / Re: faction 22" clearence with S&M tyres

« on: December 05, 2014, 01:13:20 PM »

(got an STA 22)

Post a pic!  I remember seeing someone's Trail Boss 22" but I don't recall seeing an STA 22"...

114

The Lounge / Re: Louisiana

« on: December 02, 2014, 07:18:47 PM »

America could have gone that way in the 1960s:
https://youtube.com/watch?v=14A1zxaHpD8


Nixon, then Reagan, made sure it didn't happen. Thatcher and Reagan were of the same mind.

115

The Lounge / Re: Louisiana

« on: December 02, 2014, 05:57:00 PM »

My view from across the pond is that Americas attitude towards authority, and separately towards black people, is massively fucked up

Black people are treated as inherently different, as if somehow it is genetic that they have such a different culture. Part of me wonders if this is just a denial of accepting any responsibility for the situation of some ghettos and that America is responsible for such a large percentage of the black community being so poor.

Secondly, positioning police and other 'authority' figures on some kind of pedestal, immune to being held responsible for their actions, and a culture which covers up their mistakes which are no doubt prejudice influenced.

What worries me more is how much the UK is moving towards a US mentality in many other ways, which I fear will end up in similar situations

If I may ask . . . what ways do you think the UK is moving towards a US mentality? 



 

116

The Bike Shop / Re: hardtail mountain bikes

« on: December 02, 2014, 03:56:28 PM »

29er tires typically measure ~29.25" tall inflated. "26" tires typically measure ~26.25" tall inflated.

650b tires ("27.5" is absolutely a marketing term and nothing more) typically measure ~27"-27.25" tall when inflated. The wheel size change is minimal and makes very little difference when riding, most of the "improvements" on the new breed of 650b enduro bikes are due to changes in geometry, setup (including wide bars + short stem), and refined suspension technology.

For me, actually riding a MTB in the woods is 50% climbing and 50% descending. For that, I need a bike with enough room to get my weight forward while climbing, and then be stable while descending. Coming from bmx I used to think that a short TT was good so I can throw the bike around but that seriously hurt my MTB riding. I hated every Medium sized frame I owned due to the cramped climbing geometry, and now that I am on Larges my riding has improved as well.

DH racers, who ride 100% downhill at mach chicken speed, are even going as long as possible on their top tubes. The school of thought is progressing and geometry is changing to reflect that.

This is all my 2 cents and should not be taken as anything more than that.

Good points.  I don't spend a ton of time improving my climbing, so I realize a true xc/am bike is better for climbing. 

Not sure I can agree on DH bikes being as long as possible.  I've been renting all the latest demo bikes at the mountains every summer since 2009 and to me it seems like the "reach" difference is about the same as Dirt Jumpers, which run shorter than XC/AM bikes.   For example, compare the "Reach" on the TRANSITION TR500 to their other AM/XC bikes.  The XL is for the Downhill bike is shorter than the XL for the other bikes.  http://www.transitionbikes.com/2015/Home.cfm#0

I noticed that when I'm riding DH, I actually like a shorter frame (Medium) because it puts me behind the bottom bracket most of the time.  When you're going Downhill you do not want to be leaned way out forward.... It's a more upright Motocross stance.

117

The Bike Shop / Re: Cruiser guys, ATF 24" vs Wave C vs Liquid, input please.

« on: December 02, 2014, 03:46:47 PM »

. . . .

I hope somewhere in this mess of my ongoing disagreements with Cullen's bike set ups (LOL) that you an find some sort of help in what you are after.

Heh, I'm okay with that, Bobby!    You'd probably be happy I took the 9"s off and went back to 8.25" T1 Paul B bars (which I think are what I had on there when you rode the Liquid).  If I rode a Model C / Wave C, I'd probably put 9"s on it, then I'd be happy.       The owner of Liquid rides 6"s on his; that's what the Liquid bars were:
Liquid Bikes - 24" Feedback Frame
http://www.bikeguide.org/forum/index.php?topic=195186.0

118

The Lounge / Re: Louisiana

« on: December 01, 2014, 04:21:14 PM »

My view from across the pond is that Americas attitude towards authority, and separately towards black people, is massively fucked up

Black people are treated as inherently different, as if somehow it is genetic that they have such a different culture. Part of me wonders if this is just a denial of accepting any responsibility for the situation of some ghettos and that America is responsible for such a large percentage of the black community being so poor.

Secondly, positioning police and other 'authority' figures on some kind of pedestal, immune to being held responsible for their actions, and a culture which covers up their mistakes which are no doubt prejudice influenced.

What worries me more is how much the UK is moving towards a US mentality in many other ways, which I fear will end up in similar situations

Like:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Death_of_Mark_Duggan
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2011_England_riots
?

119

The Lounge / Re: Louisiana

« on: December 01, 2014, 04:15:00 PM »

. . .
 That white boy is more or less fighting a war in a foreign land and it's gotta be scary as shit.
. . . .

This is telling.   African-Americans are not foreign.   I know exactly what you mean though.  A lot of white people do have this mentality.  They literally say things like "such and such neighborhood is like a third world country."

You see why Black people would be so upset by this?  They are as American as American gets and they're still being treated by the cops as if the cops are European colonialists in Africa, along the lines of a famous (but false) quote "The natives are restless." http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=557415

I would say that Officer Wilson's assertion that he felt "fear" and was claiming to being overpowered was the sub-conscious cue for a lot of people.  How could a 6'4" tall police officer be that fearful of another unarmed 6'4" man?  Only in the cultural context of white people's fear of black anger. 
 
Which again, your statement is so telling: "I'm sure as a white boy in blue in a neighborhood like Ferguson is tough. There is so much pent up hatred by a few members of these communities for such people."

White people feel their fear is justified, and jurors sympathize with the white police officer over that.  They are not empathizing with black people's fear of the police in the same way.

But, I'm not stupid.  I get it.  If I worked in that liquor store in that neighborhood, there would be lots of times I'd be scared too. 

And that's the same in every country that has "bad neighborhoods."  Canada and Europe included.  It's just that the thugs and police in those countries have a lot fewer guns.

Community policing is the theory that police who patrol certain areas should be culturally from or connected to those areas.  This wasn't the case in Ferguson--where all the officers are white and from a different part of St. Louis.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Community_policing    What if the police officer was from that neighborhood and maybe even knew Michael Brown?  http://www.blackpolice.org/  Likely that the whole thing could have played out differently.

 

120

The Bike Shop / Re: Cruiser guys, ATF 24" vs Wave C vs Liquid, input please.

« on: December 01, 2014, 12:24:35 PM »

. . .
I can say that you can get the Sunday 24 bikes to feel different based on how you set them up.  If you go with tall bars, you get a more "in the bike" feel, vs. if you go with shorter bars/stem, you get a more "on top" of feel.
. . .

Yeah, that makes sense. I have seen people riding 7.25" bars all the way up to 10"s on the Sunday Model C and Wave C.   

Even when you correct for stance height by raising the grips . . . there are still differences in handling associated with a bb that is below axle level, at axle level, a little above axles, and a lot above axles.  But chainstay length is the other factor that works in conjunction with bb height.  A long cs and low bb is the most difficult to pull up (obviously).  A high bb and short cs is the loopiest.  But a neutral bb height and short cs balances out stability and pop in the same way that having a higher bb and longer cs balances out (like bmx race/trails frames).

For example, look trials bikes with super-high bb's and then look at some of the ridiculously high bunnyhops they do.  The bike seems awful for dirt jumps or airing a quarter pipe, though.


Somebody like Danny Macaskill, though, has a blend of trials style and bmx street style.  His bb is only slightly above axle level, but the back end is short.


People who think that you have to have a high bb for a bike to be "freestyle" are just ignoring mtb-dj/street/park scene, where DJ 26" frames have a little bb drop, but ultra short cs.
Martin Soderstrom:


I feel like Sunday tried something new with the +1.75"bb design, and they deserve a ton of credit for that.  I do think, though, that they came to the public with a simple/simplistic marketing message (which I understand is necessary), which was basically, "our geo is freestyle, all old geo was for racing; everyone copied us."  And that just wasn't and isn't true.  (A lot of people did copy them--e.g. We The People, FIT, Stolen . . . but they weren't the only ones riding freestyle on 24"s--or 26"s.... and more recently We The People copied the Liquid geo exactly, with the WTP Atlas 24").

  "When we introduced the Model-C’s Plus-4 geometry back in 2008, it was the most definitive change in 24″ BMX geometry since the early days of 24″ BMX. From this point on, Plus-4 geometry has influenced every 24″ that has followed it. No longer are 24″ BMX riders limited to sluggish race geometry. The new geometry is quick and responsive while still being stable and comfortable."
http://www.sundaybikes.com/gear/frames/wave-c/#/0

Sunday definitely has put more effort than any bmx company in promoting 24" as a legit option to the street/park/trails bmx world.

Greg Melms custom frame from 2007-ish.  I rode one at Ray's in Cleveland in 08 or 09 and it was amazingly quick to pull up.  Bottom bracket only a little above axles.  Chainstay insanely short with 24" wheels....

http://www.ridemonkey.com/threads/speaking-of-street-cruisers.196889/page-3