Bikeguide.org - Bike maintenance for BMX'ers
The Street => The Bike Shop => Topic started by: dude... on July 19, 2015, 07:17:47 PM
-
Someone in a shop take one to bits plz and take some pics, Spev im looking at you
-
It's got khe internals basically
-
There is a photo of the internals on the LuxBMX Instagram account.
-
https://instagram.com/p/5KaHH2NWO1/?taken-by=gsportgeorge (https://instagram.com/p/5KaHH2NWO1/?taken-by=gsportgeorge)
Should be up on odysseys page shortly
-
Spev pulled one down I was hoping he would have posted about it already.
-
It's got khe internals basically
I seriously doubt that, unless you think that axial, threaded clutch + sealed bearings = 'KHE internals'
-
I've written one, but G has said he's got one on the way so I think I'll leave it to the professionals.
Here are some pics though
Max gap setting.
(https://farm4.staticflickr.com/3810/19825043856_3f5219a192_c.jpg)
Min gap setting.
(https://farm1.staticflickr.com/508/19664642709_cbcd012c78_c.jpg)
-
Any opinions on it spev?
I did like that g commented on an insty pic of my blown up cult drivers saying that won't happen
-
Any opinions on it spev?
I did like that g commented on an insty pic of my blown up cult drivers saying that won't happen
I'd say he's right. I'm solidly impressed with the driver/bearing config. The clutch resistance mechanism is dope. A bit disappointed we didn't get LHD in the first Aussie batch but they shouldn't be too far away.
-
Oh shit, they are out now??
What resistance mech did they use?
-
The gap setting thing is neat. What material is it, looks like PTFE? I'm guessing there's a helicoil or something for that grub screw.
-
Oh shit, they are out now??
What resistance mech did they use?
We got them about 10 days ago.
They use a totally different resistance mech and gap adjustment.
A 2 piece keyed washed sits inside the keyed clutch. The inner part has a flat in it to keep it aligned with the axle, the outer part keys into the slots of the clutch. A spring creates the resistance between the 2 parts as outer section spins around the inner section (if that makes any sense)
(https://farm1.staticflickr.com/473/19229300894_55010fe368_c.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/viecdA)
Here are the 2 parts of of the helical adjustment spacers.
(https://farm1.staticflickr.com/463/19663929110_e987ee6b31_c.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/vXCM3w) (https://flic.kr/p/vXCM3w) by Evan (https://www.flickr.com/photos/50522136@N02/), on Flickr
As far as any concerns to these parts being plastic. There really isn't load to these parts.
-
Im not interested in the adjustment ability, but the bearings though! I didnt know they actually did something there, and that it doesnt have lock rings!
-
Man, these look really good. I got to have a look at a couple on the weekend and they seem really nicely. Some other coasters feel a little funny out of the box (feel fine ridden in, I'm sure) but all of the Odysseys feel super smooth. I think I am going to have to build up my Sunday Ian with one of these and finally give in to small sprockets..
-
Resist mech is rad
-
Thats really cool, is there a hole in the hub shell to adjust the slack?
-
Thats really cool, is there a hole in the hub shell to adjust the slack?
You can adjust the slack by putting an allen key through it but its primary function is as a speed hole.
-
I can just see some kid backing that grub screw all the way out and losing it, or worse, screwing it all the way into the hub and losing it. Doesn't look like there are any stops on it to prevent that from happening.
-
Thats really cool, is there a hole in the hub shell to adjust the slack?
You can adjust the slack by putting an allen key through it but its primary function is as a speed hole.
I laughed way more than I should have at that piece of wit.
-
nice, that resistance mech does look pretty cool. even if they do wear out over time, theyll be easier to replace than the normal khe style ones, plus the wear should be way less cos the load is spread all the way around instead of being focused onto two tiny ball bearings
-
nice, that resistance mech does look pretty cool. even if they do wear out over time, theyll be easier to replace than the normal khe style ones, plus the wear should be way less cos the load is spread all the way around instead of being focused onto two tiny ball bearings
We got all the spare parts, to replace all the plastic pieces it's about $30aud max. Pretty reasonable I'd say.
-
yeah very cool. now i wanna know whether itd be possible to chuck the internals into a regular yuhub shell, as in an old federal one cos the shell is a 48....
-
Seeing how the hub seems to have another internal build than a yuhub I would rate the chance of that working as minimal.
How hard do you actually ride that warrents a 48?
-
Thinking pretty hard about dropping $300 for this and building up an old demo or hazard rim
-
Seeing how the hub seems to have another internal build than a yuhub I would rate the chance of that working as minimal.
How hard do you actually ride that warrents a 48?
if the outside diameters of the bearings are the same, and the inside of the shell isnt bored out more for the resistance mechanism, i dont see why i shouldnt. i wouldnt spend any big money on a freecoaster these days anyway, it was more of a case of me just being curious. chances are somewhere down the line someone might be selling a broken one cheap
-
The bearings might very well fit, not sure about spacing though.
I was thinking more of the clutch and if the contact angle is the same.
-
https://instagram.com/p/5KaHH2NWO1/?taken-by=gsportgeorge (https://instagram.com/p/5KaHH2NWO1/?taken-by=gsportgeorge)
Should be up on odysseys page shortly
Cant believe there are people here who don't already follow me on Instagram!!!! :)
Resistance mechanism is a blend of plastics including PTFE and Kevlar. The beauty of using plastic for this is that we get high precision very easily, and also we get the benefits of "stick-tion" (ie. the dynamic coefficient of friction is lower than the static) so there is less resistance when pedaling but more before you start so the clutch can engage solidly.
I have done a load of videos using the cut-away hub etc. All on the Odyssey site now.
:)
G.
-
So this is probably going to be the only coaster worth buying?
-
thats super cool, someone tell me how they crankflip!
-
I always thought G had a deeper voice.
Actually liked the video got a better idea of the hub
-
I always thought G had a deeper voice.
Actually liked the video got a better idea of the hub
Haha I had a hughe grant voice in my head personally
-
Is there anything that stops the resistance mech from sliding off the flats towards the driver? Or are the flats long enough to prevent that?
-
Is there anything that stops the resistance mech from sliding off the flats towards the driver? Or are the flats long enough to prevent that?
The clutch. The resistance mech sits inside it so it isn't going anywhere.
-
sheepdog and a few others here are involved with 3d printing stuff...
3d files for the plastic bits?
-
I always thought G had a deeper voice.
Actually liked the video got a better idea of the hub
More like something nerdy from the BBC. When does does it arrive in CANADA.
-
G: amazing looking product. worthy upgrades to a traditional khe
questions:
What is the listed weight? What are the bolt sizes and tpi being used? thanks!
-
G: amazing looking product. worthy upgrades to a traditional khe
questions:
What is the listed weight? What are the bolt sizes and tpi being used? thanks!
640 grams (22oz) w/guard, 3/8x24tpi drive side bolt, 14x1.25 non drive side bolt.
-
G: amazing looking product. worthy upgrades to a traditional khe
questions:
What is the listed weight? What are the bolt sizes and tpi being used? thanks!
640 grams (22oz) w/guard, 3/8x24tpi drive side bolt, 14x1.25 non drive side bolt.
great thanks for the info!
As far as I know, Light Bike Co already has a Ti bolt kit out already for these hubs
The only contact i could find for them is their instagram
https://instagram.com/p/5FiJ1is-l7/?taken-by=lightbmxco (https://instagram.com/p/5FiJ1is-l7/?taken-by=lightbmxco)
-
well i imagine the bolts are the same thread pitch as the existing 10mm and 14mm bolts used in other odyssey/gsport hubs so all they had to do was mix a few sets of those up
-
I always thought G had a deeper voice.
Actually liked the video got a better idea of the hub
Haha I had a hughe grant voice in my head personally
Nobody actually sounds like Hugh Grant.
-
I always thought G had a deeper voice.
Actually liked the video got a better idea of the hub
Haha I had a hughe grant voice in my head personally
Nobody actually sounds like Hugh Grant.
I always thought you would sound like mike whatshisname
(Skinner?)from the streets
-
is the driver just running on the needle bearing? How is the load of the drive side bearing transfered to the axle? Can't really tell from the pictures
-
video sounds like will from inbetweeners
-
sheepdog and a few others here are involved with 3d printing stuff...
3d files for the plastic bits?
No.
Most 3D printers will only print PLA or ABS which just aren't suitable, most home machines also wont achieve a good enough tolerance or surface finish.
I always thought G had a deeper voice.
Actually liked the video got a better idea of the hub
More like something nerdy from the BBC. When does does it arrive in CANADA.
Not sure on Canada, probably about the same time as the USA.
G: amazing looking product. worthy upgrades to a traditional khe
questions:
What is the listed weight? What are the bolt sizes and tpi being used? thanks!
It annoys me when people refer to any axial design as a KHE clone. The axial clutch design goes back nearly a hundred years in coaster brake hubs. We (BMXers) were taking the brake shoes out of coaster hubs over 30 years ago. ACS were making the RL hub about 30 years ago too. Even the Odyssey Reloader pre-dates the KHE by a significant margin. The Poverty hub had the ball springs long before the KHE hub came out (though they were welded instead of screwed), and I think that that was just an off the shelf hub so I have no idea who came out with those.
What did KHE bring to the party? They have a patent on their through axle gap adjustment (though Yu Hub claim this was their idea) and that is about it?
is the driver just running on the needle bearing? How is the load of the drive side bearing transfered to the axle? Can't really tell from the pictures
Yes. The driver only runs on a needle bearing inside and the usual angular contact bearing around the outside to the shell. The axial loads on the wheel are NOT transferred to the axle through the driver at all, this is how we can eliminate the 6802's and be certain that the driver bearings wont explode. There will be a separate video to explain the bearings...
:)
G.
-
So, on a scale of 1 to 10, for a first time freecoaster user; would you rate this hub as easy or hard to maintain?
I think eliminating any back pedaling would be great since i'm in my 30's.
-
Looks really well thought out G, nice one.
Although I don't know whether any of the kids ride trails any more :(
-
So, on a scale of 1 to 10, for a first time freecoaster user; would you rate this hub as easy or hard to maintain?
I think eliminating any back pedaling would be great since i'm in my 30's.
This is the easiest design of any freecoaster hub to maintain. You can literally bolt it on and ride it without needing to grease or adjust cone tension or repack the bearings after a week. I'd give it a 1/10.
The only thing a beginner would maybe want to adjust is the slack seen on G's youtube how-to by simply turning the allen screw from the outside of the hub.
What's cool though is you will have G posting youtube videos in the near future that will show the internals and hopefully how they all fit together, which can be tricky at first to newcomers. Props on this. That being said, there are already a few unofficial videos of past KHE style hub teardowns that can be found on youtube.
According to my source, the hubs are already in the US and on their way to shops as we speak!
They should be arriving on Monday afternoon to shops.
-
sheepdog and a few others here are involved with 3d printing stuff...
3d files for the plastic bits?
No.
Most 3D printers will only print PLA or ABS which just aren't suitable, most home machines also wont achieve a good enough tolerance or surface finish.
I always thought G had a deeper voice.
Actually liked the video got a better idea of the hub
More like something nerdy from the BBC. When does does it arrive in CANADA.
Not sure on Canada, probably about the same time as the USA.
G: amazing looking product. worthy upgrades to a traditional khe
questions:
What is the listed weight? What are the bolt sizes and tpi being used? thanks!
It annoys me when people refer to any axial design as a KHE clone. The axial clutch design goes back nearly a hundred years in coaster brake hubs. We (BMXers) were taking the brake shoes out of coaster hubs over 30 years ago. ACS were making the RL hub about 30 years ago too. Even the Odyssey Reloader pre-dates the KHE by a significant margin. The Poverty hub had the ball springs long before the KHE hub came out (though they were welded instead of screwed), and I think that that was just an off the shelf hub so I have no idea who came out with those.
What did KHE bring to the party? They have a patent on their through axle gap adjustment (though Yu Hub claim this was their idea) and that is about it?
is the driver just running on the needle bearing? How is the load of the drive side bearing transfered to the axle? Can't really tell from the pictures
Yes. The driver only runs on a needle bearing inside and the usual angular contact bearing around the outside to the shell. The axial loads on the wheel are NOT transferred to the axle through the driver at all, this is how we can eliminate the 6802's and be certain that the driver bearings wont explode. There will be a separate video to explain the bearings...
:)
G.
G: Thanks for the insider history lesson. Very interesting! I haven't been this excited about a freecoaster since the Cult came out, but obviously that was a flop. Having had both types of hubs, KHE-style and Nankai, I think the nankai offers an unparalleled user experience but unfortunately my flange is cracked and the availability of Japanese parts is questionable here in the US to say the least. And furthermore, I think the odsy clutch may now be the best designed hub out there.
-
I always thought G had a deeper voice.
Actually liked the video got a better idea of the hub
Haha I had a hughe grant voice in my head personally
Nobody actually sounds like Hugh Grant.
I always thought you would sound like mike whatshisname
(Skinner?)from the streets
Nah, nobody sounds like that either. That's just a put on Southern accent for poofs who drink shandy.
-
So, on a scale of 1 to 10, for a first time freecoaster user; would you rate this hub as easy or hard to maintain?
I think eliminating any back pedaling would be great since i'm in my 30's.
This is the easiest design of any freecoaster hub to maintain. You can literally bolt it on and ride it without needing to grease or adjust cone tension or repack the bearings after a week. I'd give it a 1/10.
The only thing a beginner would maybe want to adjust is the slack seen on G's youtube how-to by simply turning the allen screw from the outside of the hub.
What's cool though is you will have G posting youtube videos in the near future that will show the internals and hopefully how they all fit together, which can be tricky at first to newcomers. Props on this. That being said, there are already a few unofficial videos of past KHE style hub teardowns that can be found on youtube.
According to my source, the hubs are already in the US and on their way to shops as we speak!
They should be arriving on Monday afternoon to shops.
]Thanks for the info they are in Canada in like 2 weeks.
-
All the videos are up.http://bmxunion.com/reviews/insight-odyssey-clutch-freecoaster/
Seems like a really really good hub.
-
is there a nobel prize for engineering bmx parts?
i mean a regular hub makes sense... freecoasters usually a bit less but this looks really, very well thought through.
the only worry i'd have is about the plastic wearing over time or breaking some of thge finer plastic parts off...
-
I just watched all the videos and am a very happy person right now as George says some things that I've been saying for years.
I'm super glad he mentioned the part about the tolerance between the drive side shell bearing inside internal bearing race having a loose fit to the drivers outside bearing race and this causing problems.
I can't remember if I posted it on here or on Instagram, but G also corroborates the reason I gave why they want with a 3/8ths female axle on the drive side.
This looks like a super durable hub and I will be getting one, if not more than that. My only real question now is, Will it crankflip?
-
Two questions. One, does the clutch require being all greased to hell, and if so will it be done at the factory or will it require teardown before use?
Two, is this actually the g-coaster, or do you still have another design on the back burner? Seems like I remember you mentioning lots of fiddly little internal parts and tolerances being hard to achieve for it on a full manufacture run
-
My only real question now is, Will it crankflip?
I think the answer to that question may be contained in this video: http://www.odysseybmx.com/dailyword/2015/07/odsy-vision-matt-nordstrom-for-odyssey/ (http://www.odysseybmx.com/dailyword/2015/07/odsy-vision-matt-nordstrom-for-odyssey/).
-
is this actually the g-coaster, or do you still have another design on the back burner?
This is not the Gcoaster, you can look at the 2006 patents (http://www.google.com/patents/US7445105) for it though the design may have since changed since.
-
I'm a bit disappointed that G doesn't sound like Tim Roth.
-
This will be the hub that converts me to 36h and 9t instead of 48h 10t. I'm a little bummed there's no 10t option but I doubt it'd sell well.
I was all set with my bike and now Odyssey & G-Sport are convincing me I need to buy new parts. Next year when I'm not building a car...
-
G Coaster is radial engagement, this is axial engagement. G Coaster is meant to be the big shift, and the Clutch just a refinement of the threaded clutch mech we already use
-
...the only worry i'd have is about the plastic wearing over time or breaking some of thge finer plastic parts off...
There is very very little stress on any of the plastic parts. In terms of wear, the area that "resists/drags" is nearly 200mm^2 this compares with less than 1mm^2 on the steel balls of the current designs... There really is a lot of life in this part before it wears out, I would be very surprised if anyone ever wears one out even with decades of use.
I just watched all the videos and am a very happy person right now as George says some things that I've been saying for years.
I'm super glad he mentioned the part about the tolerance between the drive side shell bearing inside internal bearing race having a loose fit to the drivers outside bearing race and this causing problems.
I can't remember if I posted it on here or on Instagram, but G also corroborates the reason I gave why they want with a 3/8ths female axle on the drive side.
This looks like a super durable hub and I will be getting one, if not more than that. My only real question now is, Will it crankflip?
Glad to get your approval. Crankflipping is more likely to be successful than with current designs because of the "stick-tion" feature of the plastic.
Two questions. One, does the clutch require being all greased to hell, and if so will it be done at the factory or will it require teardown before use?
Two, is this actually the g-coaster, or do you still have another design on the back burner? Seems like I remember you mentioning lots of fiddly little internal parts and tolerances being hard to achieve for it on a full manufacture run
It will work fairly dry, but I would always recommend a good amount of grease. It should be pretty well greased from the factory but if it does need more you dont need to open it up, just use a grease gun to inject through the adjuster hole and it should work its way around.
G Coaster is radial engagement, this is axial engagement. G Coaster is meant to be the big shift, and the Clutch just a refinement of the threaded clutch mech we already use
Yes. This is a stepping stone to the G-Coaster. The G-Coaster has been dormant for a long time because we just couldn't get factories to take it seriously; they would make one prototype, mess up the hardnesses and then take forever to try to fix it. In the end, it seemed sensible to do the best job we could with the original design and hopefully get enough sales history to persuade factories to do all the extra work needed to tool up for the G-Coaster. This design does still have some minor flaws left, bearing life will be shorter than ideal (the angular contact bearing around the driver is still going to wear faster than is ideal, so it will probably need to be replaced every couple of years or maybe less if you want to keep the hub feeling perfect (but it wont explode without warning like the old driver bearings did)) and we have to make separate left and right hand versions etc. BUT it is a very useable hub that is leaps and bounds better than anything else on the market. In fact, it is so good, that I am a little worried that there wont be the need to develop the G-coaster at all...
:)
G.
-
So the stick-tion of the resistance mech is unaffected by being greased? I assume then the resistance mech is designed to be run wet? Just lookin for the usual G details
Last one, do you have an aluminum or ti axle planned for down the road?
-
It would be cool to see a count of free coasters sold from all the brands offered over the years, I don't suppose you could say how many were manufactured
-
So the stick-tion of the resistance mech is unaffected by being greased? I assume then the resistance mech is designed to be run wet? Just lookin for the usual G details
Last one, do you have an aluminum or ti axle planned for down the road?
The resistance mech should be greased ideally, but it isnt critical, it will work just fine "dry", if there is any grease in the hub then there is nothing to stop it getting into the resistance mechanism so it will likely have some.
No aluminium axle for this and no plans for a Ti one, there wouldn't be much point as the axle really isnt a big part of the weight. A 14mm Ti bolt would probably be worthwhile as there is still plenty of strength and the weight saving is good.
:)
G.
-
So the stick-tion of the resistance mech is unaffected by being greased? I assume then the resistance mech is designed to be run wet? Just lookin for the usual G details
Last one, do you have an aluminum or ti axle planned for down the road?
The resistance mech should be greased ideally, but it isnt critical, it will work just fine "dry", if there is any grease in the hub then there is nothing to stop it getting into the resistance mechanism so it will likely have some.
No aluminium axle for this and no plans for a Ti one, there wouldn't be much point as the axle really isnt a big part of the weight. A 14mm Ti bolt would probably be worthwhile as there is still plenty of strength and the weight saving is good.
:)
G.
Ah k thanks I was wondering the same thing about axle options for weight savings
I have already searched and found 1 company offering a combo Ti bolt upgrade (3/8 + 14mm). Light Bmx Company. Look on Instagram
-
WHAT WOULD IAN DO
-
So pumped for this. Empire is building me one right now and my home town is finally getting a skatepark. Biked all day today, feel like I'm 14 again.
-
Thanks for the vids, did well at explaining what was new and special about the hub.
Isnt there a risk of wear on the resistance mechanism? to me it looks like metal scraping against plastic.
And seeing how much trouble my c-clip gave me in the ratchet driver Im worried about the clip holding the hub together in this design...
-
I wouldn't worry because of the Ratchet circlip
-
Thanks for the vids, did well at explaining what was new and special about the hub.
Isnt there a risk of wear on the resistance mechanism? to me it looks like metal scraping against plastic.
And seeing how much trouble my c-clip gave me in the ratchet driver Im worried about the clip holding the hub together in this design...
This is a much bigger beefier clip and is essentially the same design that kept every Homer and Vandal rear hub together "back in the day". We NEVER had any issues with it coming out in those hubs, so it really shouldn't give any issues here.
:)
G.