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The Street => The Lounge => Topic started by: MEAT on April 25, 2015, 07:00:53 AM

Title: General election
Post by: MEAT on April 25, 2015, 07:00:53 AM
This place could do with some cyber beef. Whos voting for who and who is leaving the country if x get in?

Ukip all the way for me.
Title: Re: General election
Post by: Narcoleptic Insomniac on April 25, 2015, 09:44:40 AM
Break it down for those of us across the Atlantic.
Title: Re: General election
Post by: Allah on April 25, 2015, 11:14:57 AM
Conservatives = everyone hates them because they want to dismantle the welfare state and sell it off to their city boy chums.

Labour = everyone hates them because they went to war with Iraq and have a leader who can't eat a bacon sandwich properly.

Liberal Democrats = everyone hates them because their leader (Nick Clegg) said they wouldn't raise university tuition fees and then a few months later did when they became coalition partners with the Conservatives.

UKIP = everyone hates them because the party is made up of all the nation's racist uncles.

SNP = everyone hates them because they appear to have some reasonable policies but actually just want Scottish independence.

Green Party = everyone hates them because they are idealistic, fucked up the bin collection in Brighton (where they have an MP) and are opposed to nuclear power.

Plaid Cymru = everyone hates them because they're Welsh.
Title: Re: General election
Post by: MEAT on April 25, 2015, 11:52:35 AM
Pretty good summary really. We've been living with the conservatives, it's not been easy on the NHS and welfare like allah says,  but otherwise they've done a pretty good job in terms of cutting the deficit and supporting business. 
Title: Re: General election
Post by: Dr. Steve Brule on April 25, 2015, 01:20:03 PM
None of them represent me but I'm probably voting Labour.
Title: Re: General election
Post by: LukeTom on April 25, 2015, 01:58:15 PM
Conservatives seem least fucked up to me, so I'm going with them, have done pretty well so far with the deficit
Title: Re: General election
Post by: Prodigal Son on April 25, 2015, 08:33:54 PM
I thought the general consensus was Thatcher was the worst thing ever? Or was she an ultra conservative pig?
Title: Re: General election
Post by: Prodigal Son on April 26, 2015, 01:59:29 AM
I have no idea who I'd vote for next year. The GOP candidates are fucking morons and Clinton is a crooked bitch.
Title: Re: General election
Post by: Dr. Steve Brule on April 26, 2015, 02:01:09 AM
I thought the general consensus was Thatcher was the worst thing ever? Or was she an ultra conservative pig?

Yep, she is scum.
Title: Re: General election
Post by: Kinchy on April 26, 2015, 05:23:36 AM
I'm genuinely shitting myself about a Tory/UKIP coalition.

I used to live in Brighton where the Green MP  Caroline Lucas stood, and I was impressed by her activism for ethical issues (bin collection was city council fault, not MP fault). Having said that, she had no need to worry about anything major as she was a fringe candidate.

Hoping for a Labour/SNP coalition as Labour aren't going to get a majority.
Title: Re: General election
Post by: pegs on April 26, 2015, 06:22:54 AM
first time I've paid any attention to politics...it just pisses me off. enough to actually vote!
Title: Re: General election
Post by: Allah on April 26, 2015, 07:33:43 AM
Hoping for a Labour/SNP coalition as Labour aren't going to get a majority.

Same.

As for Thatcher, large swathes of the country do hate her but it was a while ago.

The three main parties have largely been operating under an economic neo-liberal consensus since the '80s. When Blair became Labour leader he dropped Clause IV (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Clause_IV), the part of the Labour constitution which basically referred to its aim to redistribute of wealth. A lot of genuine lefties (who almost universally despise Thatcher) find it very difficult to identify with the current Labour party, mainly because of its move to the centre. 
Title: Re: General election
Post by: Hank Chinaski on April 26, 2015, 01:30:26 PM
I have no idea who I'd vote for next year. The GOP candidates are fucking morons and Clinton is a crooked bitch.

I feel the same way.  Hillary is more of the same in the worse sense of the phrase.  I don't like these political dynasties, they're all so tied into the corporate side, the money, backroom deals, etc.  I can't think of one thing Hillary has done in recent times that went against the grain or made me think she's anything more than another puppet.
Title: Re: General election
Post by: ginger on April 26, 2015, 07:22:19 PM
Fuck the Tory bastards, they're in power here and every institution we hold dear in this country is being dismantled policy by policy.
Title: Re: General election
Post by: streetStreet on April 27, 2015, 12:06:47 AM
Steven Harper can kiss my black ass.
Title: Re: General election
Post by: Prodigal Son on April 27, 2015, 12:30:05 AM
When someone says conservative do you guys auto evoke a Thatcher state? I fucking dread when people insist on the glory days of Regan and American exceptionalism and conservatism.
Title: Re: General election
Post by: master on April 27, 2015, 12:56:31 AM
I will be watching this thread to learn about UK politics... It's interesting to see how things are done over there. I do like the idea of forming a true coalition government who may actually represent more than one viewpoint.

I have no idea who I'd vote for next year. The GOP candidates are fucking morons and Clinton is a crooked bitch.

Backed 100%. I may just vote for Gary Johnson again to show my support for him, and not check a box for the democrat/republican establishment.
Title: Re: General election
Post by: ginger on April 27, 2015, 01:29:52 AM
Coalitions rarely express multiple viewpoints, it's just one side fucking the other with a giant strap-on for 3-4 years because they know they need the numbers in the senate/house.
Title: Re: General election
Post by: Dr. Steve Brule on April 27, 2015, 03:16:29 AM
Coalitions rarely express multiple viewpoints, it's just one side fucking the other with a giant strap-on for 3-4 years because they know they need the numbers in the senate/house.

Pretty much the same as the UK.
Title: Re: General election
Post by: _tom_ on April 27, 2015, 04:53:27 AM
I haven't got a clue to vote for to be honest. I was thinking Labour or Green but really need to have a proper read of all the main policies of the parties I guess.
Title: Re: General election
Post by: Kinchy on April 27, 2015, 06:12:11 AM
There is a policy comparison website, asks you a bunch of questions and tells you how much you line up with each party
Title: Re: General election
Post by: thatotherguy84 on April 27, 2015, 01:47:46 PM
I was wondering about this, I'm here in Liverpool right now and saw a few buildings with a bunch of huge banners talking about losing welfare and all sorts of things. Reminds me of when I was in Scotland right after the vote about independence happened.
Title: Re: General election
Post by: G on April 28, 2015, 05:15:20 PM
Pretty good summary really. We've been living with the conservatives, it's not been easy on the NHS and welfare like allah says,  but otherwise they've done a pretty good job in terms of cutting the deficit and supporting business.

Sorry my head just exploded, what fucking country have you been living in for the last 5 years?

They aimed to ELIMINATE the deficit by making massive swinging cuts. We got the cuts but we still have the deficit. The economy flatlined for the first 3 years of the coalition and they then thought ooops, and started spending some money to try to improve things by this election. The economy THEN started to recover a little (whilst the USA who had avoided the whole "austerity" bullshit were romping ahead economically (by comparison))... So the plan for their next term (if they get in) is to cut even harder and deeper... It didn't work last time and it wont EVER work.
The only economic lift we have now is based on property values and building work being rushed through while the relaxation of planning laws still holds (due to end soon).

How have they supported business? By putting VAT up to 20%? By offering a referendum on Europe that will make any company very nervous about investment until it is settled, and then what the fuck happens if the Faragists play up the immigration paranoia enough to actually make it happen?

As someone who lived through multiple Thatcher governments and multiple Blair governments I know which I would rather have more of. Sure they both got into stupid wars, but at least we had (some) genuine growth under Blair. Yet somehow the fucking tories always seem to be able to perpetuate this image of being "better" on the economy, and Labour just leave them to it?!?!?! It boggles my fucking mind.

Scrap a replacement for Trident, scrap HS2, and go for something really ambitious like high speed tube pod travel things and massive hydrogen airships. We sold the world railways, surely we are better off jumping ahead than just buying the last iteration of something we invented 200 years ago (off someone else) and instead selling the new thing to the world. We desperately need investment in innovations (like Graphene) rather than austerity and stagnation.. Not that any of the parties are offering this of course..

:)
G.
Title: Re: General election
Post by: ginger on April 28, 2015, 06:03:59 PM
Sounds like a dead ringer for Tony "I-have-no-idea-how-to-run-a-country" Abbott. We've got the lowest interest rate we've ever had and the fucking Tory pricks still won't spend up on new projects! Better economic managers my fucking arse, they couldn't raffle a duck in a pub.
Title: Re: General election
Post by: Bristow on April 28, 2015, 07:47:05 PM
Pretty good summary really. We've been living with the conservatives, it's not been easy on the NHS and welfare like allah says,  but otherwise they've done a pretty good job in terms of cutting the deficit and supporting business.

Sorry my head just exploded, what fucking country have you been living in for the last 5 years?

They aimed to ELIMINATE the deficit by making massive swinging cuts. We got the cuts but we still have the deficit. The economy flatlined for the first 3 years of the coalition and they then thought ooops, and started spending some money to try to improve things by this election. The economy THEN started to recover a little (whilst the USA who had avoided the whole "austerity" bullshit were romping ahead economically (by comparison))... So the plan for their next term (if they get in) is to cut even harder and deeper... It didn't work last time and it wont EVER work.
The only economic lift we have now is based on property values and building work being rushed through while the relaxation of planning laws still holds (due to end soon).

How have they supported business? By putting VAT up to 20%? By offering a referendum on Europe that will make any company very nervous about investment until it is settled, and then what the fuck happens if the Faragists play up the immigration paranoia enough to actually make it happen?

As someone who lived through multiple Thatcher governments and multiple Blair governments I know which I would rather have more of. Sure they both got into stupid wars, but at least we had (some) genuine growth under Blair. Yet somehow the fucking tories always seem to be able to perpetuate this image of being "better" on the economy, and Labour just leave them to it?!?!?! It boggles my fucking mind.

Scrap a replacement for Trident, scrap HS2, and go for something really ambitious like high speed tube pod travel things and massive hydrogen airships. We sold the world railways, surely we are better off jumping ahead than just buying the last iteration of something we invented 200 years ago (off someone else) and instead selling the new thing to the world. We desperately need investment in innovations (like Graphene) rather than austerity and stagnation.. Not that any of the parties are offering this of course..

:)
G.

Thank fuck for G. What happened to the rest of you? Thought BG was full of cynical old gits.

Anyway, I agree with pretty much everything G stated, they (current government) haven't scratched the surface of the deficit, and if they were honest, they would say that there is no realistic chance of clearing the UK debt. My friend was injured and bed ridden a few years back, during this time he got so bored that he email the gov website regarding the deficit and how this is affected by the government cuts. What he got sent back was along the lines of 'it is impossible to clear debt, the austerity measures make no fucking difference'. He has scanned the letter, I'll post it some time, it makes for depressing reading.

The conservatives meanwhile are going around taking all sorts of credit for the UK growth, where in actual fact, this can be credited to a number of outside factors. I was listening to a conservative loving Times Uk podcast, even those guys admitted that the growths is more likely due to cheaper fuel prices (thanks to the Arabs), and growth that would naturally happen - there were other factors too, but I forget.

It's scary that idiotic people are listening the the parties and actually thinking that they will make any wholesale positive changes, they are all part of the same establishment, the changes are minuscule. After living through Labour, Conservative and Coalition governments my life has scarcely been affected by any, just stays the same, the only exception is the massive student loans of 9,000 a year.

If people want change, don't vote, if enough people do not vote the government would be forced to change their tact. I realise this will probably never happen, but what do people expect. You don't take down the premier league by switch clubs from Man City to Chelsea. If you still pay the tickets, you're contributing to the problem.

Title: Re: General election
Post by: G on April 29, 2015, 02:37:54 PM

If people want change, don't vote, if enough people do not vote the government would be forced to change their tact. I realise this will probably never happen, but what do people expect. You don't take down the premier league by switch clubs from Man City to Chelsea. If you still pay the tickets, you're contributing to the problem.

If everyone didn't vote it might work, but they wont so it wont.

The only reasonable option is to vote AGAINST the worst plan, and that's the Tories. Currently you mostly need to vote Labour to stop this. If the SNP get a lot of the previously Labour seats then the Conservatives will still be the party with the most seats and will get first shot at forming a government. If they get LibDem support and UDP etc then they might just make it, and Scotland will have fucked us all over for the sake of what? What are the SNP even for anymore? They had their referendum and the Scots (very sensibly) said they didn't hate the English (and Welsh and Northern Irish) quite as much as they like to pretend and that leaving the UK wasn't worth fucking themselves over for... So what is the SNP's purpose now?.
Personally I would be very happy to have a Labour SNP coalition with no Trident replacement etc, but the Tories have done a cunning bit of propaganda to block that...

Please vote, and please vote AGAINST the Tories.

:)
G.
Title: Re: General election
Post by: RAILS! on April 30, 2015, 05:53:49 AM
Sorry my head just exploded, what fucking country have you been living in for the last 5 years?
ETC.
Thank fuck for G. What happened to the rest of you? Thought BG was full of cynical old gits.
ETC.

I have no more to add apart from fuck UKIP, fuck David Cameron and thank fuck the BNP no longer exists as a statistic. I might just vote green party for a giggle.

Title: Re: General election
Post by: Kinchy on April 30, 2015, 10:19:55 AM
It's easier to persuade Tory voters that it's not worth voting than it is to persuade them to vote otherwise so that's my plan at the moment
Title: Re: General election
Post by: Cole on April 30, 2015, 10:44:42 AM
Voting in the UK sounds very similar to canada. Usually it's just best to vote against the worst case scenario. I'd vote NDP if jack Layton hadn't passed away. Now I'm just hoping that Harper gets voted the fuck out at the next election.
Title: Re: General election
Post by: Danno on April 30, 2015, 03:07:51 PM
Well, I'm voting conservatives like usual.
Title: Re: General election
Post by: LukeTom on April 30, 2015, 06:21:38 PM
I don't think conservatives have fucked us over that hard, England is better than it was when they came in. What it comes down to is the devil you do know is better than the devil you don't.
Title: Re: General election
Post by: Kinchy on May 01, 2015, 01:21:09 AM
Really? Beginnings of privatisation of the NHS, dismantling our welfare support for the most vulnerable, recession recovery only affecting the richest, no deficit targets hit, no reduction in borrowing, higher education fees, complete fuck up of the education system by Michael Gove, welfare to work programmes that have only reduced unemployment on paper and not in real life, and increasingly pandering to UKIPs far right ideologies.

I would say they have fucked us over.
Title: Re: General election
Post by: Dr. Steve Brule on May 01, 2015, 02:00:32 AM
Really? Beginnings of privatisation of the NHS, dismantling our welfare support for the most vulnerable, recession recovery only affecting the richest, no deficit targets hit, no reduction in borrowing, higher education fees, complete fuck up of the education system by Michael Gove, welfare to work programmes that have only reduced unemployment on paper and not in real life, and increasingly pandering to UKIPs far right ideologies.

I would say they have fucked us over.

Word.
Title: Re: General election
Post by: LukeTom on May 01, 2015, 04:15:09 AM
I see it more as saving money within the NHS and saving money on welfare support. It should never be better to stay on benefits than go into work. Living in London I don't want to vote labour because of the 'mansion tax' which is basic a tax on London. The conservatives have done a pretty good job here. And since London taxes prop up the rest of the UK economy, a recovery in London is what is most important.
Title: Re: General election
Post by: pegs on May 01, 2015, 05:27:53 AM
Luketom your bullshit detector seems to be malfunctioning mate

wish we could just leave london to it's own devices, or at least let us have a scouse state of our own. UKs fucked
Title: Re: General election
Post by: G on May 01, 2015, 06:20:34 AM
I see it more as saving money within the NHS and saving money on welfare support. It should never be better to stay on benefits than go into work. Living in London I don't want to vote labour because of the 'mansion tax' which is basic a tax on London. The conservatives have done a pretty good job here. And since London taxes prop up the rest of the UK economy, a recovery in London is what is most important.

So your house in London is worth over TWO MILLION QUID but you cant afford an extra £250 a month?
A huge proportion of London properties worth over £2M are owned by non-doms, shell corporations, super rich immigrants or people who dont even live in London full time, and this has a knock on effect on London house prices as a whole. The number of "little old ladies" who have lived in London since they were very small and now happen to find themselves in this situation is close to zero.
If you knew anyone who worked in the NHS or the ambulance service or education you wouldn't think that they are safe under the Tories.

"London taxes" by which I assume you mean "UK taxes paid by companies and individuals who are based in London" may well prop up the UK as a whole, but this is the same for any capital city. London isn't an island and those businesses are in turn "propped up" by the rest of the UK in terms of trivial things like food, water, electricity, workers, customers, tourists etc Not to mention when the huge London (and other major world city based) banking businesses had to be "propped up" by the country-bumpkins of the world when THEY (not the Labour party) FUCKED THE WORLD ECONOMY RIGHT IN ITS COLLECTIVE ARSEHOLE SO THAT THEY COULD BUY A NEW FERRARI !!!!!!   

What really caused the economic disaster of 2008? Terrible corrupt lending practices, market manipulation, profiteering, junk bond manufacturing etc by bankers around the world who weren't properly regulated. What has the coalition government done to protect us from a repeat of this? Fuck all really.

What we need is:-
1. an end to  crippling austerity (not more and deeper)
2. A Tobin tax (not just to raise money but to stabilise markets).
3. Investment in REAL wealth creating industries and innovation (not money shuffling hedge funds that just make things worse).
4. Proper bank regulation with a real risk of jail for people who cause these issues.

Are any of the parties offering this? No. But the Tories are the worst, so vote AGAINST them!

:)
G.
Title: Re: General election
Post by: LukeTom on May 01, 2015, 06:49:07 AM
Yes, I do live in a house worth over £2m, but no, we cant afford another 3 grand a year. House prices in London have gone through the roof people took out large mortgages on properties which further went up in value, they are not buying new Ferraris their disposable income is not huge. 80% of these properties affected are in London, who are already paying for 40%+ of the UKs GDP. I would think differently if you taxed homes over £4/5m (this would still tax non-doms, shell corporations, super rich immigrants) , but honestly £2m is too low and you are encompassing average people in the three grand a year tax increase who cant afford it.
Title: Re: General election
Post by: Kinchy on May 01, 2015, 11:33:22 AM
£2m house =/= average person
Title: Re: General election
Post by: carnage on May 01, 2015, 11:58:27 AM
Yes, I do live in a house worth over £2m, but no, we cant afford another 3 grand a year.

Poor and disabled people are paying 1/2 that 3 grand in bedroom tax to stay in their homes out of 70/week.

How would you feel about moving to another area like you'd be voting for them if you really couldn't pay?
Title: Re: General election
Post by: LukeTom on May 01, 2015, 01:15:56 PM
We already pay the 40% tax rate, that almost half of what you earn goes to the government about 30k. We already pay stamp duty when we sell the house, which has increased recently. I do not see what is wrong with the bedroom tax, if the government is paying for your housing, and you are living in a house which is too big for you, what is wrong with taxing you for that?

I am an average person, we brought this house 20 years ago for no where near that mark, we got lucky and the area improved and the house prices went up. This tax is forcing people out of their family homes, three grand a year is a huge amount and its unfair charging  the people with large mortgages or people who have simply got lucky.
Title: Re: General election
Post by: carnage on May 01, 2015, 02:03:43 PM
I am not saying the mansion tax is a good idea, or that the bedroom tax is wrong in principle. I'm wondering how you think 3 grand is a lot of money when poor/disabled people manage to pay 1/2 that out of their benefits.

Without the funds from a sale and often zero income how do expect people who have an extra room to be able to up sticks?

If Labour got in power and you couldn't pay the tax you'd be pissed off about being advised to move to a cheaper property but you are going to vote for a government who are forcing exactly that on poor and often disabled people.

Title: Re: General election
Post by: G on May 01, 2015, 04:49:35 PM
We already pay the 40% tax rate, that almost half of what you earn goes to the government about 30k. We already pay stamp duty when we sell the house, which has increased recently. I do not see what is wrong with the bedroom tax, if the government is paying for your housing, and you are living in a house which is too big for you, what is wrong with taxing you for that?

I am an average person, we brought this house 20 years ago for no where near that mark, we got lucky and the area improved and the house prices went up. This tax is forcing people out of their family homes, three grand a year is a huge amount and its unfair charging  the people with large mortgages or people who have simply got lucky.

Nearly everyone pays 40% plus in tax one way or another. Sure, when you go into the higher rate tax band it is all called tax and is a bit more transparent, but you don't pay any more national insurance than someone at the top of the 20% rate. Other taxes like VAT, fuel duty, road duty (road tax), council tax etc are NOT means tested either so you pay the same whether on the minimum wage or taking home a bankers bonus of a million quid every year.


Yes there will be a very very small number of people who are in an extraordinary position of owning a now very valuable house for whom that extra £3k a year is a burden, but there is provision for those not in the higher tax bracket to postpone paying it until the house changes hands.

However you have to compare this to David (my family is loaded because we owned a lot of slaves and then got compensated by the government to let them go and then continued to benefit from their labours by re-employing them at "slave wages", ie. we are rich because of government hand outs) Cameron, thinking that everyone on any kind of benefits in this country can be squeezed by 1% (hey its only 1%) to let them keep the top rate of Tax down at 45% instead of 50%.

So yes, if you truely are in the situation you describe then I sympathise, but I still think that it will be easier for you to find £3k a year than it will for a family below the poverty line to find (another) 1%. Its almost like they are taking the piss with the whole 1% comparison...


As to London paying all the tax.  I already covered that, London isnt an island, you NEED the rest of the UK to generate that cash, you think it just magically issues from Alan Sugar's rosy sphincter or something? And why stop at London? A significant portion of that tax was probably generated in a few postcodes, why not cut off tower hamlets etc too and really lord it up? Because then there wouldn't be anyone to clean your offices and empty the bins, they'd all be outside your doors with pitchforks!

The bedroom tax is ridiculous, it assumes that there is plentiful housing out there and people can simply move into a smaller place to avoid it. This is obviously ridiculous, we have a massive housing shortage and moving house is an expensive exercise at the best of times. All these measures that the tories have bought in have caused massive hardship yet saved virtually zero money. They have just resulted in the money going to private companies making an arse of the assesments instead of the actual people who used to get it!!!!

:)
G.
Title: Re: General election
Post by: LukeTom on May 01, 2015, 05:59:13 PM
Perhaps what you are saying is right, and perhaps if labour did not want to introduce a 'mansion' tax I would side with you and in fact I would quite like to, I do believe allot of what labour is putting forward. But like I said, no matter how much I believe, the conservatives are offering me £3k a year for the next 4 years for my vote. No amount of political idealism is going to argue with that.
Title: Re: General election
Post by: Kinchy on May 02, 2015, 02:40:58 AM
As long as you are ok, that's fine then
Title: Re: General election
Post by: LukeTom on May 02, 2015, 04:36:14 AM
Yes? Everyone votes to see themselves better off? I'm not going to vote for labour because I feel some sense of moral duty towards the country/other people, everyone who votes has themselves in mind as #1
Title: Re: General election
Post by: pegs on May 02, 2015, 06:46:55 AM
that's the tory way!
Title: Re: General election
Post by: Dr. Steve Brule on May 02, 2015, 12:32:30 PM
Hahahahaha.
Title: Re: General election
Post by: ginger on May 03, 2015, 06:28:37 PM
You sound like a proper right wing twat. I hope you get fucked over no matter who gets in power, selfish as they come by the sounds of it.
Title: Re: General election
Post by: G on May 04, 2015, 10:35:16 AM
Perhaps what you are saying is right, and perhaps if labour did not want to introduce a 'mansion' tax I would side with you and in fact I would quite like to, I do believe allot of what labour is putting forward. But like I said, no matter how much I believe, the conservatives are offering me £3k a year for the next 4 years for my vote. No amount of political idealism is going to argue with that.

So although pretty much the first thing they did when the coalition got in was to up VAT from 17.5 to 20% (which probably cost you a couple of grand) and put up tuition fees by many thousands (which might effect you if you are at Uni or planning to go), and put the stamp duty up (which you were also complaining about). That possible new 3k is the real killer?

What about when you come to try to get on the housing ladder yourself? I very much doubt you will be able to buy in London unless you are very very well paid, but even elsewhere in the country you are going to struggle thanks to the coalitions various policies which have driven up house prices even further from their already ludicrous levels, and represent about the only economic growth we have seen under them.

Tory policies are full of rampant short-termism. They abandon any long term goals like a well educated population, affordable housing, etc, in favour of quick political gains now, sell off utilities, sell off council houses, cut the top rate of tax, dismantle the steel and coal industries etc etc.

People moan about Labour selling off the gold "cheap" (when most other developed countries were doing exactly the same) but the Tories pissed away the north sea-oil revenues on smashing up the steel industry and coal mining just to weaken the unions. At least with Labour we got new schools and hospitals, the Tories left us with Poll Tax riots and a collapsing education and health system, and a new "service industry"...

:)
G.
Title: Re: General election
Post by: MEAT on May 04, 2015, 02:46:41 PM
Scrap a replacement for Trident

Yeah that's an odd one, what is it 150 bn, on a doomsday machine? Though I don't really feel qualified to make a judgement, it could be it's actually holding Russia etc from marching on teesside.
If that budget included the new subs they're planning that would make some sense, they have at least some practical uses than just ending the world, also their construction would all be in the UK too I think.
Title: Re: General election
Post by: ginger on May 04, 2015, 06:06:34 PM
Our budget included new subs and the Tory pricks won a bunch of South Australian senators on the election promise that they would build them in SA shipyards, creating thousands of new jobs and maintaining a bunch of existing ones. In typical Tory fashion, everyone got fucked over and the contract is now going to Japan.

Japanese fucking submarines for the Australian Navy.
Title: Re: General election
Post by: LukeTom on May 04, 2015, 07:04:03 PM
Yes, but all of these policies were a nation wide scheme, not specifically affecting me, unlike the mansion tax, it feels like its pertaining to a very specific part of society. To be honest, Conservatives have kept me and my family well. Would labour be better? Perhaps, perhaps not, but I'm not planning on chancing it, like I said, the devil you know is better than the devil you don't. And Ginger, yes I am voting selfishly. I'm not loosing my house because I have some misplaced sense of moral responsibility to the country. Fuck that, I'm looking after myself just like everyone else in this country, I suggest you get off your moral high horse and do the same
Title: Re: General election
Post by: ginger on May 04, 2015, 08:33:38 PM
I'd rather have morals and 3k less p.a. than vote for a bunch of soulless cunts, thank you very much.
Title: Re: General election
Post by: LukeTom on May 05, 2015, 04:57:01 AM
If you think Milliband or 99% of politicians aren't soulless cunts then you are deluded.
Title: Re: General election
Post by: _tom_ on May 05, 2015, 11:08:24 AM
There is a policy comparison website, asks you a bunch of questions and tells you how much you line up with each party

Based on the one I used I suppose I should be voting Lib Dem really, I got 50% for their policies, 30% labour and 20% conservative. Is lib dem still a "wasted vote" though? Suppose it's one against UKIP so that's something.
Title: Re: General election
Post by: Kinchy on May 05, 2015, 12:01:15 PM
The 'wasted vote' idea is a load of shit invented by the big two parties to stop people voting for smaller parties.

Title: Re: General election
Post by: Liam on May 05, 2015, 01:11:12 PM
Fuck that, I'm looking after myself


I'm willing to bet that touching sentiment would even stir a flicker of life in the lump of coal that resides in the chest cavity of your ham-face overlord.
Title: Re: General election
Post by: Liam on May 05, 2015, 01:14:50 PM
There is a policy comparison website, asks you a bunch of questions and tells you how much you line up with each party

Based on the one I used I suppose I should be voting Lib Dem really, I got 50% for their policies, 30% labour and 20% conservative. Is lib dem still a "wasted vote" though? Suppose it's one against UKIP so that's something.


It's a wasted vote in the sense that their manifesto may as well be written in disappearing ink and hidden at the end of a rainbow. Got in power and toadied up to Cameron, turning their backs on everything that made anyone vote for them in the first place. They're almost worse than the Tories. At least the Tories don't try and pretend that they're not cunts, which is about the only thing approaching respect I can offer their way.
Title: Re: General election
Post by: Kinchy on May 05, 2015, 02:56:00 PM
I think the Tories could of done a lot worse had they had a majority. Lib Dems could have done a lot better than they did though
Title: Re: General election
Post by: Dr. Steve Brule on May 05, 2015, 04:32:23 PM
Working in a university everyone was rallying around to get everyone to vote Lib Dems on the promise of lower uni fees. They got in bed with the Tories and fucking TRIPLED them. Absolutely mind boggling.

If you're unsure just vote Labour. None of us are earning enough to be the demographic of the Conservatives.
Title: Re: General election
Post by: ginger on May 05, 2015, 08:07:54 PM
All I know about the Lib Dems comes from this 10 minutes of golden television: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BLGjPuaEgyw
Title: Re: General election
Post by: Prodigal Son on May 05, 2015, 08:19:17 PM
What's the definition of Tories?
Title: Re: General election
Post by: BilboBaggins on May 05, 2015, 10:52:56 PM
From what I've collected from the rantings of bg salt heads, they're the rich.
Title: Re: General election
Post by: Prodigal Son on May 06, 2015, 12:27:01 AM
I think that's more the conservatives.
Title: Re: General election
Post by: dude... on May 06, 2015, 12:42:16 AM
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tory (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tory)

tories = conservative party/those who support them
Title: Re: General election
Post by: ginger on May 06, 2015, 01:27:53 AM
Tory = cunt = conservative = typically white middle aged men.
Title: Re: General election
Post by: Prodigal Son on May 06, 2015, 01:47:20 AM
Ahhh I see. I was thinking that it wasn't an actual party but more a PAC (or your equivalent). Thanks guys.
Title: Re: General election
Post by: medusa.cascade on May 06, 2015, 02:44:43 AM
The turn out will be interesting, I don't think it is at all predictable.

Shame people don't vote for the policies they actually want.
This is an interesting map showing how people would vote if it was purely on policies. https://data.voteforpolicies.org.uk/constituencies/explorer#party-trends?filter=leading-party-for-each-constituency
Title: Re: General election
Post by: G on May 06, 2015, 05:43:32 AM
The 'wasted vote' idea is a load of shit invented by the big two parties to stop people voting for smaller parties.

Its more a result of the way the country is split into seats that are then counted as units. Ironically the Libdems managed to negotiate a referendum on changing this system, but as with all their negotiations with the Tories they made a massive arse of it and only ended up with a choice between what we have now and an AV system which was a shitty compromise that failed to win. Its Ironic, because it looks like the results at this election will be pretty terrible for the Libdems but much better than they would have been if we had got proper proportional representation...

With the system we have, about the best you can do is vote AGAINST the worst case scenario, but in most seats a vote for the Green party (for example) is pretty much a wasted vote and has the potential to let in the cunts you didn't want....

:)
G.
Title: Re: General election
Post by: Dr. Steve Brule on May 06, 2015, 06:33:24 AM
http://www.dontbeafuckingidiot.uk/
Title: Re: General election
Post by: carnage on May 06, 2015, 06:44:42 AM
What's the definition of Tories?

lower than vermin
Title: Re: General election
Post by: Scunny on May 06, 2015, 10:07:26 AM
Will be so fucked off if the Conservatives get back in, cant bare to watch them fuck us up the arse for another 4 years. Labour are the best (least bad?) of a bad bunch, i've always voted green in the past but that was more out of protest than anything else but i'll be voting Labour just to try get those pricks out.
Title: Re: General election
Post by: Lo Pan on May 06, 2015, 02:42:01 PM
I'll be casting my vote toward whoever happens to be the most friendly toward labor unions. In the U.S. that's usually democrats.
Title: Re: General election
Post by: ad. on May 06, 2015, 04:10:25 PM
saw this today, summed up the tories for me

(http://www.sabinabecker.com/media/aneurin-bevan-quote.jpg)

Title: Re: General election
Post by: favouritegame on May 06, 2015, 10:06:49 PM
Tell you what, the thing I'm going to miss most once this is over is Nigel Farrage (despite being a bellend) touring every pub in England for a pint and a ciggie.
Title: Re: General election
Post by: amishrob on May 08, 2015, 12:25:54 AM
fucked it.
as if this outcome wasn't obvious, without scotland (and libdem actually winning seats) labour didn't stand a chance. my 'libdem safe seat' is now tory.
Title: Re: General election
Post by: Scunny on May 08, 2015, 12:41:34 AM
Only thing i'm hanging on to is that Farage looses South Thanet and sticks to his word and fucks off.
Title: Re: General election
Post by: ginger on May 08, 2015, 12:51:00 AM
They declared a winner yet? You poor bastards stuck with Cameron for another 4?
Title: Re: General election
Post by: Scunny on May 08, 2015, 01:51:18 AM
Not everythings come through yet, but it doesn't matter.

Cameron for another 4, by majority. At least he's not going to be able to sugar coat his raping of the nation with "it's a coalition decision".
Title: Re: General election
Post by: Dr. Steve Brule on May 08, 2015, 03:11:27 AM
Hard times.
Title: Re: General election
Post by: LukeTom on May 08, 2015, 04:58:17 AM
Goodbye Farage, will be a different landscape without him, cant really believe UKIP got so much of the vote, but only a single seat
Title: Re: General election
Post by: Kinchy on May 08, 2015, 05:34:07 AM
Miliband should have handed over to Alan Johnson last year.

Massive shame, wonder what the country will look like at the next election?
Title: Re: General election
Post by: Cole on May 08, 2015, 07:51:51 AM
Things really have the grim of an outlook for you guys?
Title: Re: General election
Post by: G on May 08, 2015, 08:50:43 AM
FIVE fucking years, not four!

I cant believe Labour made such a bad job of getting the message out that the whole SNP scare mongering was bollocks, all the polls up to the last minute had it 50:50 which would have been fine, and then clearly a lot of dick-heads bottled it for some reason as they walked to the polls.

At least their majority is very very slim, with a bit of luck some marginal seats will need by-elections and we can escape a full 5 years. If only we had the power to recall MPs... Within a few years of austerity-plus at least the immigration issue will be less controversial as we will all be wanting to fuck off to Albania etc...

:(
G.

 
Title: Re: General election
Post by: LukeTom on May 08, 2015, 11:45:09 AM
No; the outlook is not that grim. People here are die hard labour supporters and that's why they are so fucked off. No one was predicting such a big win for the conservatives it just shows that the majority of people do trust the conservatives and want to keep them in government. So much so that they have improved on last year and are now running a majority.
Title: Re: General election
Post by: medusa.cascade on May 08, 2015, 11:51:29 AM
people are fucking idiots thats why. i am not a fan of labour at all, but fuck the tories
Title: Re: General election
Post by: RAILS! on May 08, 2015, 12:01:11 PM
The outlook is not grim, it's heinous.

At least Farage has fucked off.
Title: Re: General election
Post by: Danno on May 08, 2015, 12:02:42 PM
Things really have the grim of an outlook for you guys?

No not at all, this board doesn't really give a fair representation of the electorate as the Tories got in, and there's only two of us on here who have posted saying we support them so that says it all.
Title: Re: General election
Post by: Kinchy on May 08, 2015, 12:21:10 PM
I spoke to many Tory voters who had no clue about Tory policy beyond 'snp and Labour are bad'
Title: Re: General election
Post by: medusa.cascade on May 08, 2015, 12:28:46 PM
I agree that the board is not representative of the uk population, but it must also be said that nor is the current electoral system. Kinchy, that is pretty much word for word what the Murdock press has been spouting.
Title: Re: General election
Post by: amishrob on May 09, 2015, 02:30:28 AM
my mother is a doctor of early years education and according to her this is the worst possible outcome. everyone in her field (and education in general) is staunchly anti tory for what michael gove has done and it's only going to get worse.
i work in a part of the murdoch media empire (though not for him) and a lot of his employees are pissed.
Title: Re: General election
Post by: Kinchy on May 09, 2015, 07:07:57 AM
Gove fucked the school system, problem is that we won't see that for 15 years when we churn out a load of improperly educated people.

Politicians give zero fucks about the education system because their kids go to private
Title: Re: General election
Post by: RAILS! on May 09, 2015, 10:59:00 AM
Kinchys got this thread on lock.

What's a fair representation anyway when you're dealing with a bunch of power hungry eaton boys?

:)
Title: Re: General election
Post by: Bristow on May 09, 2015, 01:35:18 PM
I spoke to many Tory voters who had no clue about Tory policy beyond 'snp and Labour are bad'

Exactly this.

Conservatives are claiming they will cut £12billion from Welfare, but are only outline how they will cut £2billion of this. I shudder to think where the extra £10billion will come from, Tories obviously realise how toxic these cuts would be to voters and have kept them under wraps as not to lose votes.

Why would anyone vote for them if they don't know where they financially stand? It's incomprehensible to me. 
Title: Re: General election
Post by: Kinchy on May 09, 2015, 04:09:05 PM
Or, in fact, they aren't going to save £12bn, they were just lying
Title: Re: General election
Post by: G on May 09, 2015, 06:10:42 PM
No; the outlook is not that grim. People here are die hard labour supporters and that's why they are so fucked off. No one was predicting such a big win for the conservatives it just shows that the majority of people do trust the conservatives and want to keep them in government. So much so that they have improved on last year and are now running a majority.

Bollocks.

Labour are pretty crap, no argument. They have made an arse of this campaign, totally failing to stand up to the stupidity of the Tory policies and just toning them down for their own manifesto. Austerity is BULLSHIT. It DOESN'T WORK.

Look at Greece. Sure they made some fucking stupid decisions in the past, but they have done what the ECB wanted for years, cut everything to virtually nothing and it has just fucked them deeper into the hole they are in.

But all the major parties were saying how they would keep on with Austerity and cuts and reducing the deficit like its the answer to everything. When what we need is INVESTMENT.

The reason the Tories won the election is that fuckwits listened to the Murdoch press, they totally failed to understand that the SNP bogey-man shite was bollocks. And as they walked to the polling stations a lot of cowardly little cunts who had said they would vote Labour, bricked it. They liked their subsidised over 65's savings plans, and the guarantee of no tax increases and their avoidance of mansion tax and death-duties. Never mind that this all has to come out of the very fabric of society and will cause a massive jump in crime and poverty and child suffering. They were OK jack and fuck everyone else, and anyway Scottish people wopuld be in charge... They would have blocked a Trident replacement would they? How the fuck would they do that if the Tories voted for it? They wanted it right? So when Labour brought it to the house why the fuck would they need any support from the SNP when they had the entire Tory party voting for it? When Milliband said he wouldn't form a coalition with the SNP he meant it, he had no need to, he could easily have governed as a minority. Just because the Tories couldn't doesn't mean he couldn't, the thing is that most of the other parties would have just backed them on a bill by bill basis, whereas the Tories would have been fucked without the Libdems in their pocket.

So yes. Labour are a bit shit. But a bit shit is better than ludicrously corrupt and self-serving. The Conservatives have bribed the over 65's with a 4% savings plan that all us younger working people are going to have to pay for in the next few years. They are bribing the higher rate tax payers with a higher threshold etc, and everyone benefits from a higher lower rate threshold too, we all win YAY.

Are you really so fucking stupid that you think they can cut everyone's taxes, promise not to raise any new taxes, AND cut the deficit without fucking the country into the ground? When you fall off your bike and go to the accident and emergency in a few years, and it is run by G4 using day release sex offenders as porters and the long term unemployed as nurses and the first thing they need to do is swipe your credit card you are going to wonder what the fuck is going on. Its simple, the man who's family made their money from slaves and government hand-outs will be lying in a bath of money he made letting all his mates cherry pick the NHS and taking a massive shit because he cant believe how stupid people are.... 

On the face of it, I will be better off by about 3 grand a year because of this government, but in reality it will cost me a lot more than this in the long run, and I would rather my children grew up in a civilised society...

Oh, and remember this. In three years time Boris will take over as PM. You know harmless bumbling old Boris, with his great common sense policies that make you feel warm and fluffy. Nice red buses, more cycle lanes, a nice new estuary airport for everyone, but while he is bumbling about and keeping the press busy debating this trivia, he will be fracking under your house and shafting all the public services to death. NHS split into a million pieces so the Unions are gone, Schools all privatised and playing fields sold off for housing for his mates to build shitty houses on and make a huge profit (but not Eaton obviously). in fact, kids can probably leanr all they need at home from their computer so why bother with physical schools at all?

Thatcher squandered most of the north sea oil revenue on smashing up the miners and the steel workers, by simply destroying those industries. Now Cameron and Johnson will carry on her work and destroy the teaching and nurses unions by destroying the school system and the NHS.. and it will be the fault of all these selfish cockheads who voted Tory!

THIS is why I am pissed off, not because I am a "die hard Labour supporter" but because I have seen the Tories do this shit before, and it sucks. It took us 15 years to recover from Thatcher, that's why there was no money left. But it was improving, crime rates were down, waiting lists at hospitals were down, school class sizes were down, schools wern't crumbling lumps of crap and temporary classrooms understaffed and with a massive shortage of teachers.

FFFFFFFFFFUUUUUUCCCCCCKKKKK!!!!!!!

Sorry for the rant...

:)
G.
Title: Re: General election
Post by: amishrob on May 10, 2015, 02:18:57 AM
gove as justice secretary, man has a solid reputation for success, what could go wrong?
Title: Re: General election
Post by: Dr. Steve Brule on May 10, 2015, 04:20:28 AM
gove as justice secretary, man has a solid reputation for success, what could go wrong?

Yeah, jesus christ, what a ridiculous idea.

Big up to G, that's pretty much my sentiment also.
Title: Re: General election
Post by: LeonLikesToRock on May 10, 2015, 06:01:03 AM
If your country goes to shit (as many of you seem to think it will) and the exchange rate goes down think of how many of us antipodes will be flying over there for our working holidays in your dark, wet and genuinely depressing corner of the world. Just think, after a hard days underpaid work a British gentleman will go down to his local only to be greeted with "G'day moite, which wannnaya shit beers can oii get yah?"(Good evening sir, may I get you a beverage?) then get bullied about the latest English loss in cricket. The expression "choice as, bro" will eventually creep its way into the Queen's English. Think of the real cost Brits, think of the future. You will probably never see British hospitality staff again... Dark dreary days ahead for you guys. I suppose you'd be used to that though.
Title: Re: General election
Post by: MEAT on May 10, 2015, 11:43:41 AM
Dooooomed, dooomed, save yourself, unfortunately I was off on holiday (on pa-pa's yacht) so didnt get to vote. The nhs is costing us vastly more than it should, like most public services, due to the ridiculous upside down management structures and levels of bureaucracy, it needs to be run more like (but not as) a business.

Title: Re: General election
Post by: ginger on May 10, 2015, 06:19:49 PM
Good luck, you poor bastards.
Title: Re: General election
Post by: medusa.cascade on May 11, 2015, 04:00:55 AM
Dooooomed, dooomed, save yourself, unfortunately I was off on holiday (on pa-pa's yacht) so didnt get to vote. The nhs is costing us vastly more than it should, like most public services, due to the ridiculous upside down management structures and levels of bureaucracy, it needs to be run more like (but not as) a business.



The NHS is one the best and most cost effective healthcare systems in the world. Fuck anyone who wants to "restructure" it.
Title: Re: General election
Post by: G on May 11, 2015, 08:44:40 AM
If your country goes to shit (as many of you seem to think it will) and the exchange rate goes down think of how many of us antipodes will be flying over there for our working holidays in your dark, wet and genuinely depressing corner of the world. Just think, after a hard days underpaid work a British gentleman will go down to his local only to be greeted with "G'day moite, which wannnaya shit beers can oii get yah?"(Good evening sir, may I get you a beverage?) then get bullied about the latest English loss in cricket. The expression "choice as, bro" will eventually creep its way into the Queen's English. Think of the real cost Brits, think of the future. You will probably never see British hospitality staff again... Dark dreary days ahead for you guys. I suppose you'd be used to that though.

More likely you will find an influx of whinging poms turning up down under to complain its too hot...

:)
G.
Title: Re: General election
Post by: ginger on May 11, 2015, 06:20:41 PM
Since the election of the LNP, Australia has once again become nothing but a colonial outpost owned by you lot. For Mother England!
Title: Re: General election
Post by: LeonLikesToRock on May 12, 2015, 04:21:19 AM

More likely you will find an influx of whinging poms turning up down under to complain its too hot...

:)
G.

Give us a yell when you're in town haha.
Title: Re: General election
Post by: MEAT on May 12, 2015, 07:00:06 AM
The NHS is one the best and most cost effective healthcare systems in the world. Fuck anyone who wants to "restructure" it.

The frontline of it is no doubt, but the management side of it certainly isnt, a mess of talentless executives on 6 figure salaries, squandering their budgets due to poor planning/decisions, while waiting for their lottery win pensions to mature.

Im not putting any particular political spin on this and i sure as hell dont want it privatised, im just saying it could be run much more efficiently.

Title: Re: General election
Post by: LukeTom on May 12, 2015, 08:03:30 AM
The NHS is one the best and most cost effective healthcare systems in the world. Fuck anyone who wants to "restructure" it.

The frontline of it is no doubt, but the management side of it certainly isnt, a mess of talentless executives on 6 figure salaries, squandering their budgets due to poor planning/decisions, while waiting for their lottery win pensions to mature.

Totally agree.

On another note, Farage has now come back, I thought we got rid of that fucker
Title: Re: General election
Post by: Kinchy on May 12, 2015, 04:02:05 PM
Votes Tory, calls Farage a fucker. Basically the same thing
Title: Re: General election
Post by: Kinchy on May 12, 2015, 04:07:34 PM

The frontline of it is no doubt, but the management side of it certainly isnt, a mess of talentless executives on 6 figure salaries, squandering their budgets due to poor planning/decisions, while waiting for their lottery win pensions to mature.

Im not putting any particular political spin on this and i sure as hell dont want it privatised, im just saying it could be run much more efficiently.



I'm sorry, but that is pure shut.

I've worked with the NHS and my experience is that it is full of intelligent people being paid a wage they deserve, working over the expectations to improve services across the board for ungrateful cunts, whilst repeatedly having funds removed and being asked to cut corners whilst providing a better service than the year before. And that goes for both front line and managerial.

Sorry meat, you're funny occasionally but as far as I can gather you're a podgy graphic designer with no fucking clue about the NHS
Title: Re: General election
Post by: MEAT on May 12, 2015, 05:28:38 PM
Haha you cunt.

Most of my family has/does work for the nhs,  a few of my mates are Dr's and tomorrow I'll be spending most of the day stuck in a room with a bunch of miserable surgeons (drawing them the prettiest pictures with my crayons), the general consensus agrees with what ive said above. There are examples of stupid money wasting in every dept, the sort of thing that would never be allowed to happen in the regular corporate world.

Besides,  I think I remember hearing the average nhs executive salary is in the region of 180k? One of my mates (in a 'failing' hospital) was moaning his boss had received a 15% payrise this year on top of that too...
Title: Re: General election
Post by: Zoidberg on May 13, 2015, 04:34:06 AM
zing


in my humble opinion it was labour who lost it rather than the tories who won it

i remember seeing ben milliband and thinking he was different to the usual shower of cunts but lo, he gets stabbed in the back and replaced with his brother who appears to of had a stroke

so what were the options?

lib dems - uni fees
greens - is that a vote for ukip?
ukip - i fucking despair
tories - 8bn nhs pledge? where's that come from? are we still in austerity? double dip recession? i don't know

when i broke my arm a few years ago i went to the royal london in east london, i was in physio for a few months with the same guy but different buildings over the course of time. it started out in the old building which looked like a mental asylum like you see in films with loads of staff helping lots of people. during this time we moved to the next and new building which was about four times the size and facilities for each physio and looked like the inside of a space ship. i remarked to my physio how lucky he was to have it to which he replied they were halving the staff leaving the ones who stayed with bonkers work loads. still, totally worth it to have another manager or two on board yeah?
Title: Re: General election
Post by: MEAT on May 13, 2015, 06:52:49 AM
One of our smaller local hospitals did that recently,  then remembered they have patients to treat so hired back ALL the same staff, doing about 20% less hrs, on a contract basis, which means they're paid about 50% more. They aren't complaining.

Also a lot of my work for the last few years has been re-graphic designing perfectly functional stainless surgical tools, good for a few k uses, into relatively expensive single use plastic stuff, because the nhs logistics and sterilisation services are so monumentally useless, it's cheaper to bin stuff than risk the 20% loss/breakage rate they suffer when they try and get stuff cleaned.
Title: Re: General election
Post by: Zoidberg on May 14, 2015, 04:59:22 AM
they probably think it's cheaper than getting sued every so often
Title: Re: General election
Post by: Hank Chinaski on May 15, 2015, 03:07:20 AM
Just on the subject of hospital waste, I work in the ER and 100% of everything we use is disposable except for tooth extraction trays, chest tube insertion trays, the "blades" you use to intubate people, and the actual drill for putting IVs into bone (everything used except the actual drill is disposable).  Every scalpel, every pair of tweezers, forceps, wound stapler, blood pressure cuff, oxygen sensor, etc to infinity is disposable.  Even the pillows we have are one time use.  I've got no clue how it can be cheaper to throw everything away than to clean and reuse it.
Title: Re: General election
Post by: Zoidberg on May 15, 2015, 06:30:20 PM
Just on the subject of hospital waste, I work in the ER and 100% of everything we use is disposable except for tooth extraction trays, chest tube insertion trays, the "blades" you use to intubate people, and the actual drill for putting IVs into bone (everything used except the actual drill is disposable).  Every scalpel, every pair of tweezers, forceps, wound stapler, blood pressure cuff, oxygen sensor, etc to infinity is disposable.  Even the pillows we have are one time use.  I've got no clue how it can be cheaper to throw everything away than to clean and reuse it.

see above
Title: Re: General election
Post by: ABCD on May 16, 2015, 01:21:44 PM
..