Bikeguide.org - Bike maintenance for BMX'ers
The Street => The Bike Shop => Topic started by: MEAT on February 23, 2015, 03:32:47 PM
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About time, the new front/rear design looks tonnes better and the wider hole spacing should be more solid too. Be interested to see what the back side is like, now hubs are more standardized in terms of flange size and spoke count, id imagine there'll be something other than the old pleasure knobbles, to help secure it?...
(http://hashbmx.pl/wp-content/uploads/2015/02/11005277_431405330359638_1048154552_n.jpg)
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I hate to say but im leaning towards the new merrit clip on ones
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those boys clean up nicely.
might actually run a pair of the handsome bastards. think they'd hold up in back?
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dont like how much zip tie is exposed, or the fact that these appear to be designed around zipties to hold them in place int he first place, when the mankey strap or a shoelace has always worked wayyyy better on the older glands
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I liked the way the older versions fixing points would evenly line up with the cross over of spokes on 48's, nice, even and simple.
Put them on 36's and it's sort of hit and miss evenly securing it to the spokes.
Really interested to see how these work out and the small, minimal shape looks good and clean!
I'm not street enough to take off my hub guards and way too OCD looking after the wheelset to put them through any form of traumatic experience without protection.
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^^^ yeah they never lined up properly on 36s, even the gland 3s. also i found the knobbles on the back of the 3s did more harm than good, and i could never get them to sit as flush as the 2s
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is this tested to not grind through the ziptie or shoelace over 6 months?
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I imagine there will still be a wide shoelace included.
Good to know it's not just me that couldn't get the IIIs to sit easily/centered in my 36h wheel.
Also agree that the IIs were better fitting.
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Can we get some chromoly guards for G-Sport hubs now?
Seriously, why use a strap on plastic guard with the toughest hubs? they're pretty much the first hubs deigned around serious freestyle bmx abuse with huge 17-20mm axles with slip on collars, it only makes sense to make the collars replaceable with a nice slip on guard..
This is almost as confusing to me as why Primo won't update Wall and V-Monster tyres without changing the tread pattern.
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Seriously, why use a strap on plastic guard with the toughest hubs? they're pretty much the first hubs deigned around serious freestyle bmx abuse with huge 17-20mm axles with slip on collars, it only makes sense to make the collars replaceable with a nice slip on guard..
The plastic makes sense because you're avoiding a "rock-hit-rock" approach to protection. when you attach the guard onto the spokes, it spins WITH the wheel. So when you smack your bike into a grind, the plastic just cushions the sharp edge of the obstacle from spiking into the spokes while the impact is spread to most/all the spokes (since the guard leans onto all of them). the spinning of the wheel helps preventing obstacles from constantly hitting one specific spot on your guard every grind, and being able to spin also reduces grind friction.
as for making it into a slip on collar, that'd actually make it work on a COMPLETELY different principle:
you'll never be able to make one guard that fits on every wheel in a way that the guard rests on the spokes evenly and snugly, let alone have it spin with the wheel. this means the guard has to have a lot more rigidity to it to withstand impact and stop itself bending into the spokes. this is now back to a rock-hit-rock approach, which almost seems primitive in this day and age given how much BMX engineerers have learnt over the years.
it would also create an immense point of leverage on the axle/bearing race. imagine this slip-on collar rigid guard as the horizontal blue bar in this:
(http://www.biologycorner.com/worksheets/articles/article_img/what_levers_clip_image008.jpg)
the red arrow is the impact applied to the guard when you smack your bike onto a rail for a grind, whereas the triangle pivot is the contact area that this collar sits on the axle, against the inner bearing race. the resultant force applied to the bike (since its also where the collar rests against the inner race of the bearing) is the green arrow, which is effectively on the same spot as the triangle pivot in this case. the impact from the grind is, therefore, largely amplified thru leverage. this means you're creating a mechanism that's prone to deformation from a rock hit rock approach and long leverage, and the consequence of when that happens is a possible combination of fucked bearing/bearing race/hub wobble/axle damage.
based on this above i hope you can see that while a collar slip on guard seems like a good idea, it would requie an axle that's hard enough (so maybe steel is needed), a guard itself with very strong rigidity and possibly extra beefiness at the bearing race contact area, all of which are NOT REQUIRED with a guard that strap onto the spokes. it even loses out on how it spreads out impact.
what's really desirable is, therefore, (probably) for the newest gland to be thick enough so that once its attached, it ALMOST fills the gap between the hub flange and the inside of the dropout yet without touching. this way, when you hop onto a grind and land on the guard, it effectively slides it back out to the bottom of the frame dropout and the peg, without putting pressure on the collar whatsoever.
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I'd like to see how these compare size wise to a gland 3.
Cut all the knobs off, attach them with really thin wire, never think about again.
Glands are the bestest.
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Merritt hubguard still looks cleaner I think.
(http://merrittbmx.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/01/FHG2_SM.jpg)
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Finally
it has happend to me
right in front of my face
and I just cannot hide it
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Merritt hubguard still looks cleaner I think.
(http://merrittbmx.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/01/FHG2_SM.jpg)
those forks are cracked
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Seriously, why use a strap on plastic guard with the toughest hubs? they're pretty much the first hubs deigned around serious freestyle bmx abuse with huge 17-20mm axles with slip on collars, it only makes sense to make the collars replaceable with a nice slip on guard..
The plastic makes sense because you're avoiding a "rock-hit-rock" approach to protection. when you attach the guard onto the spokes, it spins WITH the wheel. So when you smack your bike into a grind, the plastic just cushions the sharp edge of the obstacle from spiking into the spokes while the impact is spread to most/all the spokes (since the guard leans onto all of them). the spinning of the wheel helps preventing obstacles from constantly hitting one specific spot on your guard every grind, and being able to spin also reduces grind friction.
as for making it into a slip on collar, that'd actually make it work on a COMPLETELY different principle:
you'll never be able to make one guard that fits on every wheel in a way that the guard rests on the spokes evenly and snugly, let alone have it spin with the wheel. this means the guard has to have a lot more rigidity to it to withstand impact and stop itself bending into the spokes. this is now back to a rock-hit-rock approach, which almost seems primitive in this day and age given how much BMX engineerers have learnt over the years.
it would also create an immense point of leverage on the axle/bearing race. imagine this slip-on collar rigid guard as the horizontal blue bar in this:
(http://www.biologycorner.com/worksheets/articles/article_img/what_levers_clip_image008.jpg)
the red arrow is the impact applied to the guard when you smack your bike onto a rail for a grind, whereas the triangle pivot is the contact area that this collar sits on the axle, against the inner bearing race. the resultant force applied to the bike (since its also where the collar rests against the inner race of the bearing) is the green arrow, which is effectively on the same spot as the triangle pivot in this case. the impact from the grind is, therefore, largely amplified thru leverage. this means you're creating a mechanism that's prone to deformation from a rock hit rock approach and long leverage, and the consequence of when that happens is a possible combination of fucked bearing/bearing race/hub wobble/axle damage.
based on this above i hope you can see that while a collar slip on guard seems like a good idea, it would requie an axle that's hard enough (so maybe steel is needed), a guard itself with very strong rigidity and possibly extra beefiness at the bearing race contact area, all of which are NOT REQUIRED with a guard that strap onto the spokes. it even loses out on how it spreads out impact.
what's really desirable is, therefore, (probably) for the newest gland to be thick enough so that once its attached, it ALMOST fills the gap between the hub flange and the inside of the dropout yet without touching. this way, when you hop onto a grind and land on the guard, it effectively slides it back out to the bottom of the frame dropout and the peg, without putting pressure on the collar whatsoever.
From a hacks point of view.. I'd like some hub guards that don't flop around and push my spokes into the flange, I'd also like them to grind smooth like a steel peg.
Maybe you've never felt how nice it is to grind something and have the same grind resistance between the peg and hub guard on the grind surface but it's pretty fucking amazing.. where aluminum and plastic guards stick and pull you at an angle toward the rail on things like icepicks and toothpicks, chromoly guards let you float evenly and straight down rails.
The other big aspect is covering the space between the hub flange and the dropout so rails and whatever else won't get wedged in there instead of on the peg or guard.
I'm sure you have all the practicalities worked out but when it comes to bike battering, press fit chromoly guards are the answer to the peg abusers dreams.
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Plastic pegs+plastic hubgaurds slide way better than chromo pegs and guards in my experience. I don't know what kind of sticky plastic guards you've tried there laz....
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Plastic pegs+plastic hubgaurds slide way better than chromo pegs and guards in my experience. I don't know what kind of sticky plastic guards you've tried there laz....
G-Sport and BSD..
I could never ride plastic pegs consistantly, the two that I've had were nearly fucked after less than a week.
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i've always found riding a gland to be the best grinding. These new ones look aetshecially pleasing i'll probably get some.
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it would also create an immense point of leverage on the axle/bearing race. imagine this slip-on collar rigid guard as the horizontal blue bar in this:
(http://www.biologycorner.com/worksheets/articles/article_img/what_levers_clip_image008.jpg)
the red arrow is the impact applied to the guard when you smack your bike onto a rail for a grind, whereas the triangle pivot is the contact area that this collar sits on the axle, against the inner bearing race. the resultant force applied to the bike (since its also where the collar rests against the inner race of the bearing) is the green arrow, which is effectively on the same spot as the triangle pivot in this case. the impact from the grind is, therefore, largely amplified thru leverage. this means you're creating a mechanism that's prone to deformation from a rock hit rock approach and long leverage, and the consequence of when that happens is a possible combination of fucked bearing/bearing race/hub wobble/axle damage.
Keeping everything in context, dont forget there is a 4.5in long lever attached to the very end of the axle + a fat internet nerd jumping up and down, smashing the end of it repeatedly into a concrete block. In the grand scheme of things the load from a small hub guard cantilevered off an inboard area of the axle, is going to be a fart in a jacuzzi when compared to the loads from the peg.
They're mostly good because they protect your spokes and they're a lot lower profile than the axle mounted ones.
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Any word on when these will be released?
Getting ready to order some jc/pc halves and may grab some mkIIIs to hold me over.
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Seriously, these are so awesome looking.
When do they come out? Shut up and take my money!
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Man, maybe its just the picture but those slots for the zapstraps/shoelace dont look deep enough. It looks like theyre going to be a part of the grinding surface, rather than sunk away from it. I know theyre not static and move with the wheel, but a couple good hits on a ledge is going to shred/break the shoelace/ziptie.
Plastic pegs+plastic hubgaurds slide way better than chromo pegs and guards in my experience. I don't know what kind of sticky plastic guards you've tried there laz....
G-Sport and BSD..
I could never ride plastic pegs consistantly, the two that I've had were nearly fucked after less than a week.
My BSD guards have always slid like butter, but I guess i understand about the pegs, as Ive definitely killed a plastic peg in a single ledge sesh before.
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Man, maybe its just the picture but those slots for the zapstraps/shoelace dont look deep enough. It looks like theyre going to be a part of the grinding surface, rather than sunk away from it. I know theyre not static and move with the wheel, but a couple good hits on a ledge is going to shred/break the shoelace/ziptie.
agreed, dont think theyre gonna last long
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Any word on when these will be released?
Getting ready to order some jc/pc halves and may grab some mkIIIs to hold me over.
They are very close to production, just ironing out production stuff. Should be in stores mid-late spring time I would guess.
:)
G.
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Man, maybe its just the picture but those slots for the zapstraps/shoelace dont look deep enough. It looks like theyre going to be a part of the grinding surface, rather than sunk away from it. I know theyre not static and move with the wheel, but a couple good hits on a ledge is going to shred/break the shoelace/ziptie.
Plastic pegs+plastic hubgaurds slide way better than chromo pegs and guards in my experience. I don't know what kind of sticky plastic guards you've tried there laz....
G-Sport and BSD..
I could never ride plastic pegs consistantly, the two that I've had were nearly fucked after less than a week.
My BSD guards have always slid like butter, but I guess i understand about the pegs, as Ive definitely killed a plastic peg in a single ledge sesh before.
The cable ties are inset so they are flush but yes they DO form part of the grind surface, this means that the grind surface is smoother and there is less chance of catching which is what really stresses things. However, it isn't like there is any weight on the grind surface like there is on a peg. They should last a very long time and obviously they are replaceable. They have held up really well in testing and nobody has ground through one yet enough to break a tie.
:)
G.
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and a regular shoelace wont catch and grind away either? zipties tend to snap very soon for me
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Merritt hubguard still looks cleaner I think.
(http://merrittbmx.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/01/FHG2_SM.jpg)
(http://pikof.com/di/MGYA/star-wars-wallpaper-raise-the-imperial-flag.jpg)
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I used to make these 10 years ago, they worked really well (I would custom make each one to fit the hub perfectly). I still have a smaller one on my rear hub. At first I used zip ties, but they broke instantly, so I just used some shoelaces, which lasted years.
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v650/moppitukka/arttuguard.jpg)
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v650/moppitukka/Etutappi.jpg)
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Im also for press fit. I have had my BSD on my marmoset for years and its just awesome. If there were chromo versions I probably use those
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my biggest gripe with the glands was that it reallly just kinda reduced damage to the spokes, didnt fully protect them. after a long time all those ledge bashes into the guard would knock and deform all the spokes around the edge of the hub flange. and on the ratchet with its thick flanges, the spokes would deform like crazy at the J and then snap at that bend. my db spokes would rarely snap at the butting and mostly at that bent in J. i hope the new gland is better for this here lil gripe of mine
but theyre lighterweight