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The Street => The Lounge => Topic started by: Prodigal Son on November 25, 2014, 02:02:12 AM
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I wonder if it's the BMX kid in me that's been hassled and fucked with by cops that makes me feel this way about the Michael Brown shooting. I see it as undeniable that there is police abuse of power. To say there is not caused the wonderment. I assume you're either a cop or have never been subject to an officer instigation. I make it black and white with my own bias. It is not, I know that much.
The other thing I wonder about, these (Wilson and Zimmerman) see themselves as what? They are not able to overcome unarmed teenagers?
I'd like to hear others input on this matter besides my white ex cop boss, npr, rush Limbaugh, etc.
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What does louisiana have to do with it?
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Ferguson is in Missouri. I think the whole thing is a joke. A bad joke.
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I think prodigal may have knocked his head a bit too hard.
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That is a given. Missouri, yes.
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My view from across the pond is that Americas attitude towards authority, and separately towards black people, is massively fucked up
Black people are treated as inherently different, as if somehow it is genetic that they have such a different culture. Part of me wonders if this is just a denial of accepting any responsibility for the situation of some ghettos and that America is responsible for such a large percentage of the black community being so poor.
Secondly, positioning police and other 'authority' figures on some kind of pedestal, immune to being held responsible for their actions, and a culture which covers up their mistakes which are no doubt prejudice influenced.
What worries me more is how much the UK is moving towards a US mentality in many other ways, which I fear will end up in similar situations
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#WhitePrivilege
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Unbelievable action from my German point of view.
I thought about finding at least some few nice words for America, but there's not a single thing I could think of right now.
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#WhitePrivilege
It's interesting to me that there seems to be many that feel this is stripped away. They seem like the people opining for a reincarnation of Regan to give power back to the white man.
Ferguson is in Missouri. I think the whole thing is a joke. A bad joke.
Which part do you see as a joke?
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Over look the fact that he was a 290+lb dude who just robbed a convenience store,which is a crime, that's cool.
That's all I'm going to say about that.
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The actual death of Mike Brown is still up in the air to me (I have yet to read through any of the evidence or testimony that was released to the public last night), but there are some serious law enforcement issues as well as the racial and economical problems that have always been here, and those things are going to take a lot of time and hard work from everyone involved to begin to change for the better.
I think the whole thing is a joke. A bad joke.
None of what has been happening here is a joke.
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As someone from Louisiana, I am sad because I thought this thread would be about finding people to chill with.
But of course it is about Ferguson.
I absolutely agree that police think they are above the law and get away with a lot of shit. Who watches the watchman? The watchman does, of course, and he isn't going to throw his own in jail (unless they go against the grain and "whistleblow," then they just leave you to die, as Frank Serpico can tell you).
HOWEVER, police use of force in Ferguson may have, perhaps was even probably, justified. Micheal Brown turned out to be a bully and a thief, who resisted arrest and assaulted a policeman. Under Missouri law, lethal force was justified.
Not that we will know, however, because the case never went to trial, which is kind of fucked up.
It really does suck that Micheal Brown is what made Ferguson blow up. The police in Ferguson have killed a lot of people. Mike Brown was the last straw, but Mike Brown may have been a case when lethal force was justified. We will never know, however, because it was not taken to trial. And that is what should be the main issue of the case.
The grand jury will send the defendant to trial if and only if there is probable cause. Because none of the testimony agreed, such as witness accounts, differences in autopsy results, the fact that Officer Wilson's story changed, etc., I find it hard to believe there was not probable cause to send this case to trial by jury to truly lay everything in the open.
However, that is why we have grand juries. They heard a lot more evidence than what we heard and they obviously felt that Wilson's actions were justified. Ok.
The part where this gets fucked up is that grand juries almost NEVER fail to indict (except against police of course). Couple this with the prosecutor, who had a clear conflict of interest (his father was a cop killed in the line of duty, his brother is a cop, several of his nephews are cops). He was the guy who came out last night, called the media cunts, told the lit pipe bomb that is Ferguson to calm down and jerked off a few cops. Yes, HE was the lawyer who was supposed to be AGAINST the cop.
So we have a cop who was justified to use lethal force, a prosecutor who is extremely empathetic to cops and a dead kid who was 6.5 ft tall, weighed 300 lbs and committed the crimes of theft, assault and resisting arrest. Not a good case to use to unite the people against the misuses of power of the police.
However, this case DOES seem to be pushing the use of police cams, which is AWESOME. Every city that has implemented body cams has fewer reports of mistreatment by police.
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funny how the obama/holder/jackson crew only get involved in the losing cases where there's no video...
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The fact that you people still think it's ok to use lethal force on people is fucking insane. I'm all for shooting murderers, rapists, paedophiles and the like, but a petty thief? Pull your heads in, fuck the United States of White America.
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The fact that you people still think it's ok to use lethal force on people is fucking insane. I'm all for shooting murderers, rapists, paedophiles and the like, but a petty thief? Pull your heads in, fuck the United States of White America.
In no way am I saying that the escalation of force was justified in this case, because I haven't done any reading into it. BUT, there are tons of times when lethal force is justified. If the cop felt he was in danger of injury/death, he's justified to use whatever force necessary to subdue the threat.
As mentioned, this is more fodder for using cop cameras, or at the very least a microphone that's always on. And having more officers trained in how to use tasers. Don't know what its like in the US, but in Canada, only supervisors and up carry them/ have training for them.
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There was a chain of events leading up to the shooting. I'm not saying a petty thief deserves to be shot, but in this situation his actions got himself killed.
Body cameras would be a good thing. I know some cities have them.
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last night i nose bonked a security car
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Over look the fact that he was a 290+lb dude who just robbed a convenience store,which is a crime, that's cool.
That's all I'm going to say about that.
Exactly, some folks choose to listen to only one side of the story without knowing facts and blindly follow it, people forget that there are 2 sides to a story.
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If you think shooting dead an unarmed person (I'm 99% sure he was definitely unarmed) is ok, your brain wiring is all kinds of wrong. Whether he was a thief, or gangbanger, or whatever, excessive force resulting in death is not something that should be justifiable just because its written down as a law.
It doesn't take a genius to work out that killing people is a bad thing, especially when cops have various other methods of subduing aggressors. It just seems that the mentality in North America is one of "Fuck it, I'll just shoot him and worry about it after the fact" and that is not good for anybody.
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Did you hear about the 12 year old kid (black, of course) who was shot dead by cops because he had a pellet gun?
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Dude was a dead beat anyway but... You should never wind up in a situation where you're punching a cop in the face and trying to steal his weapon. You fucked up somewhere in life to wind up in that situation.
I agree that he shouldn't have been shot that many times, however I'm pretty certain police are trained to trained to double tap until the person is.... Fuck it, I'm not going to argue about this shit.
Live like a thug, die like a thug.
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Did you hear about the cop who got shot execution style by his own weapon when a foot pursuit went wrong? That happened in my city.
http://articles.latimes.com/2010/nov/16/local/la-me-riverside-officer-20101116 (http://articles.latimes.com/2010/nov/16/local/la-me-riverside-officer-20101116)
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Did you hear about the 12 year old kid (black, of course) who was shot dead by cops because he had a pellet gun?
Just heard about that, sad, pellet gun had no markings to show it was a pellet gun usually they are brightly coloured at the tips.
Here's a link
http://www.smh.com.au/world/police-shoot-dead-12yearold-boy-waving-fake-gun-20141123-11sdx9.html
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Did you hear about the cop who got shot execution style by his own weapon when a foot pursuit went wrong? That happened in my city.
http://articles.latimes.com/2010/nov/16/local/la-me-riverside-officer-20101116 (http://articles.latimes.com/2010/nov/16/local/la-me-riverside-officer-20101116)
Damn..
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If you think shooting dead an unarmed person (I'm 99% sure he was definitely unarmed) is ok, your brain wiring is all kinds of wrong. Whether he was a thief, or gangbanger, or whatever, excessive force resulting in death is not something that should be justifiable just because its written down as a law.
It doesn't take a genius to work out that killing people is a bad thing, especially when cops have various other methods of subduing aggressors. It just seems that the mentality in North America is one of "Fuck it, I'll just shoot him and worry about it after the fact" and that is not good for anybody.
Wilson's affidavit goes something like this dude was a more skilled combatant and was about to disarm him. His only recourse was to kill him or he would be victim to his own weapon.
This officer isn't a small dude either.
Over look the fact that he was a 290+lb dude who just robbed a convenience store,which is a crime, that's cool.
That's all I'm going to say about that.
Exactly, some folks choose to listen to only one side of the story without knowing facts and blindly follow it, people forget that there are 2 sides to a story.
I have a hard time believing this side of the story. How many asshole cops have you dealt with riding your bike? You can't imagine one acting the way he's been portrayed be the media cunt?
Sorry about the Louisiana thing Siri thought it was cool to autocorrect from St. Louis. Yah that's exactly what happened. Yah.
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Did you hear about the 12 year old kid (black, of course) who was shot dead by cops because he had a pellet gun?
Just heard about that, sad, pellet gun had no markings to show it was a pellet gun usually they are brightly coloured at the tips.
Here's a link
http://www.smh.com.au/world/police-shoot-dead-12yearold-boy-waving-fake-gun-20141123-11sdx9.html
How stupid are people? Why would the kid not just put his hands up like the officer said rather than reaching for the gun? Yeah, it's sad someone's kid died but for fucks sake.
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Did you hear about the cop who got shot execution style by his own weapon when a foot pursuit went wrong? That happened in my city.
http://articles.latimes.com/2010/nov/16/local/la-me-riverside-officer-20101116 (http://articles.latimes.com/2010/nov/16/local/la-me-riverside-officer-20101116)
That's crazy. I guess accidents happen, but shit! Don't you expect an officer to not be disarmed by someone who doesn't have training?
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I hear what you're saying
You did see the video of him strong arming the store clerk right?
Fuck i'm just gonna go get some pizza while this thread bickers back n forth ;D
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There was a chain of events leading up to the shooting. I'm not saying a petty thief deserves to be shot, but in this situation his actions got himself killed.
Body cameras would be a good thing. I know some cities have them.
saw this on CNN.
They pretty much gave the officer's description of the last moments, and if true, the victim really provoked the actions taken by the cop.
They also talked about the body cam that sounds like a sort of good idea.
I think it's weird that cops here (holland) are trained to shoot for the legs first. Can't find statistics but if 2 people were killed by our police last year, that would probably be a high average. And they would have been warranted.
In contrast i continuously hear about people killed by officers in the states.
Loading off 12 bullets like in Brown's case is in no way necessary.
really curious as to how officers would justify that.
This case might not be the best case to defend, but the history of minority suppression in the US is huge.
Rodney King imho was the case that should have solved shit.
Guess the authorities get in the way of that, so it's great that everyone is on the streets now.
Guys like Mandela/MLK would be proud.
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Over look the fact that he was a 290+lb dude who just robbed a convenience store,which is a crime, that's cool.
That's all I'm going to say about that.
Exactly, some folks choose to listen to only one side of the story without knowing facts and blindly follow it, people forget that there are 2 sides to a story.
I have a hard time believing this side of the story. How many asshole cops have you dealt with riding your bike? You can't imagine one acting the way he's been portrayed be the media cunt?
Sorry about the Louisiana thing Siri thought it was cool to autocorrect from St. Louis. Yah that's exactly what happened. Yah.
Are you replying me ?
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If an unarmed man is coming at you, you shoot to kill? This is the kind of fucked up logic that keeps the US at the bottom of the food chain. You know people can be debilitated by being shot in the knee cap, right?
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It would be pretty hard to shoot at someone's knees especially if they are moving. Mid section is the easiest target but yeah I hear what your saying.
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If US cops aren't confident in being able to kneecap someone, they shouldn't be cops.
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I can only imagine with all the adrenaline it could be pretty damn hard to think of what way to do things, they need more training in how to handle situations like that if anything.
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Heck I can see rubber rounds being useful for a situation like this, maybe carry 2 weapons one with rubber rounds and the other lethal depending on the situation. I don't know how well rubber would work so I'm just throwing it out there.
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Did any of guys read his testimony and how he dealt with him?
http://m.motherjones.com/politics/2014/11/here-are-transcripts-and-audio-darren-wilsons-grand-jury-hearing
Cellmember, yes, I was replying to you. The officers side of the story is hard to believe.
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23 Police Officers Fire 377 Bullets at Two Men With Zero Guns (http://www.theatlantic.com/national/archive/2014/05/23-police-officers-fire-377-bullets-at-2-men-with-0-guns/361904/)
the year before, similar situation but with less danger/justification, it was 140-something rounds after the officers had been ordered to give up pursuit
what about the case in new york where the cops shot 9 innocent bystanders and then charged the guy they were shooting at for the injuries?
or the school teacher parked in the school parking lot who drove away from a cop so he unloaded on her, killing her, and then made up a story about being trapped in her window?
or that homeless camper getting shot in the back in new mexico?
or all the kids who are threatening to commit suicide, only to have the cops (sometimes snipers) show up and do it for them instead of just leaving them alone/backing off/talking...
or all the raids on wrong addresses that end in unarmed dead people/animals?
remember the 2008 and 2012 election cycles, when one of the candidates would actually talk about the dangers of a militarized police state?
we picked the brown guy instead and now the only police stories that get major attention are the ones that stir up racial bullshit...
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Did any of guys read his testimony and how he dealt with him?
http://m.motherjones.com/politics/2014/11/here-are-transcripts-and-audio-darren-wilsons-grand-jury-hearing
Cellmember, yes, I was replying to you. The officers side of the story is hard to believe.
Right, what's up with the "cunt" word at the end of your post ?
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23 Police Officers Fire 377 Bullets at Two Men With Zero Guns (http://www.theatlantic.com/national/archive/2014/05/23-police-officers-fire-377-bullets-at-2-men-with-0-guns/361904/)
Just finished reading that and I got to say that's insane !
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Media cunt is funny. It's applied to the broad base we get our info from, not you as an individual.
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Media cunt is funny. It's applied to the broad base we get our info from, not you as an individual.
Oh okay no problem, I just though it was a little weird as I've never seen it used in that context before mainly just to insult some one etc, all good.
To answer your question, I've haven't been hassled by cops very much not it the way you guys in US have it that's for sure, but like I said there's always 2 sides to a story and I do agree the media can spit any bullshit they wish and we'd know no better.
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There was a chain of events leading up to the shooting. I'm not saying a petty thief deserves to be shot, but in this situation his actions got himself killed.
Body cameras would be a good thing. I know some cities have them.
saw this on CNN.
They pretty much gave the officer's description of the last moments, and if true, the victim really provoked the actions taken by the cop.
They also talked about the body cam that sounds like a sort of good idea.
I think it's weird that cops here (holland) are trained to shoot for the legs first. Can't find statistics but if 2 people were killed by our police last year, that would probably be a high average. And they would have been warranted.
In contrast i continuously hear about people killed by officers in the states.
Loading off 12 bullets like in Brown's case is in no way necessary.
really curious as to how officers would justify that.
This case might not be the best case to defend, but the history of minority suppression in the US is huge.
Rodney King imho was the case that should have solved shit.
Guess the authorities get in the way of that, so it's great that everyone is on the streets now.
Guys like Mandela/MLK would be proud.
Shoot for the legs? LMFAO. When you have someone that you're trying to kill (pretty much the only reason you'd draw a lethal weapon is to kill someone) the amount of adrenaline pumping through you isn't going to let you focus in on someone's legs. You're aiming for the biggest part of their body, AKA Center of Mass, and you're going to keep unloading until they stop in their tracks.
Also, comparing any countries violent crimes (Developing nations aside) to the USA's, you're comparing apples and towels.
Realistically, in the escalation of force, killing someone is the very last option and should ideally only be used to protect yourself or others in the case of grievous harm or death.
Again, I don't know the details, and it wouldn't entirely surprise me that the officer did use excessive force. However, if he genuinely believed he had no other option, then that's fine that he went that route, but there should be a thorough investigation carried out by Internal Affairs and if it's found he stepped out of bounds, take him to trial, if not, then the proper authorities found that he carried out his duties properly.
(http://www.braidwoodinquiry.ca/report/P1_html/images/05-Nuff.jpg)
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Heck I can see rubber rounds being useful for a situation like this, maybe carry 2 weapons one with rubber rounds and the other lethal depending on the situation. I don't know how well rubber would work so I'm just throwing it out there.
Rubber is "less"-lethal, not non-lethal. Just like shot guns that fire a bean bag.
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Heck I can see rubber rounds being useful for a situation like this, maybe carry 2 weapons one with rubber rounds and the other lethal depending on the situation. I don't know how well rubber would work so I'm just throwing it out there.
Rubber is "less"-lethal, not non-lethal. Just like shot guns that fire a bean bag.
Fair enough.
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The fact that you people still think it's ok to use lethal force on people is fucking insane. I'm all for shooting murderers, rapists, paedophiles and the like, but a petty thief? Pull your heads in, fuck the United States of White America.
In no way am I saying that the escalation of force was justified in this case, because I haven't done any reading into it. BUT, there are tons of times when lethal force is justified. If the cop felt he was in danger of injury/death, he's justified to use whatever force necessary to subdue the threat.
As mentioned, this is more fodder for using cop cameras, or at the very least a microphone that's always on. And having more officers trained in how to use tasers. Don't know what its like in the US, but in Canada, only supervisors and up carry them/ have training for them.
He didn't have a taser on him cause it was "uncomfortable" on his belt...
The protests going on in Ferguson (and abroad) is more then just about what happened with Mike Brown, but it's about the corrupt system of cops and the racism that is rampant in the judicial system throughout America. Also this theft... I'm pretty sure Darren Wilson didn't know about the theft at all.
ACAB (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xt18-qkyFHg)
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More fucking insanity about that theft.
"He's a big guy and pushed past the store clerk. That's the equivalent of a weapon, let's call it robbery."
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Are you saying he didn't rob the store? He robbed the clerk of some of cigarillos or whatever.
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Yes, I am saying shoplifting and robbery are two different things.
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Rob - verb \ˈräb\
: to take money or property from (a person or a place) illegally and sometimes by using force, violence, or threats of force/violence.
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He's going kookoo
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Did you hear about the 12 year old kid (black, of course) who was shot dead by cops because he had a pellet gun?
Just heard about that, sad, pellet gun had no markings to show it was a pellet gun usually they are brightly coloured at the tips.
Here's a link
http://www.smh.com.au/world/police-shoot-dead-12yearold-boy-waving-fake-gun-20141123-11sdx9.html
How stupid are people? Why would the kid not just put his hands up like the officer said rather than reaching for the gun? Yeah, it's sad someone's kid died but for fucks sake.
The kid was 12 for fucks sake. Even if he'd had a real gun police should be able to disarm a little boy without shooting him dead. That is just plain fucking incompetence.
Cops are supposed to protect people. Instead we keep seeing cases of police terrorizing communities all over America, disproportionately affecting minorities and the poor, and most of the time they get away with it.
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Did you hear about the 12 year old kid (black, of course) who was shot dead by cops because he had a pellet gun?
Just heard about that, sad, pellet gun had no markings to show it was a pellet gun usually they are brightly coloured at the tips.
Here's a link
http://www.smh.com.au/world/police-shoot-dead-12yearold-boy-waving-fake-gun-20141123-11sdx9.html
How stupid are people? Why would the kid not just put his hands up like the officer said rather than reaching for the gun? Yeah, it's sad someone's kid died but for fucks sake.
The kid was 12 for fucks sake. Even if he'd had a real gun police should be able to disarm a little boy without shooting him dead. That is just plain fucking incompetence.
Cops are supposed to protect people. Instead we keep seeing cases of police terrorizing communities all over America, disproportionately affecting minorities and the poor, and most of the time they get away with it.
I agree with you. The kid was still stupid, though.
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http://countercurrentnews.com/2014/08/ferguson-store-owner-says-he-doesnt-believe-thats-mike-brown-on-surveillance-video/#
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So if one of us reached for an officers weapon through their window of their cruiser, what do you think would happen?
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Rob - verb \ˈräb\
: to take money or property from (a person or a place) illegally and sometimes by using force, violence, or threats of force/violence.
If you see the video, there isn't threats or violence. Dude rushes out. I don't consider that violent. Assholieness? Absolutely. Name someone on here that isn't one though.
Billy, you should have pretty good chances of disarming him apparently. Maybe 50:50 disarm or shot.
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Rob - verb \ˈräb\
: to take money or property from (a person or a place) illegally and sometimes by using force, violence, or threats of force/violence.
If you see the video, there isn't threats or violence. Dude rushes out. I don't consider that violent. Assholieness? Absolutely. Name someone on here that isn't one though.
Watch the video, dude. The guy snatches the cigars from over the counter, the employee comes around the counter to try to stop him from leaving and then the suspect grabs the clerk by the collar and shoves him away. Before he leaves, he doubles back towards the clerk presumably saying something that of a threat as he puffs his chest out like a tough guy..
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funny how the obama/holder/jackson crew only get involved in the losing cases where there's no video...
Yeah its sad that the self proclaim black leaders don't really care about actually working towards changing things. It's easier just too throw out the same tired rhetoric than working super hard at being a community leader
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So if one of us reached for an officers weapon through their window of their cruiser, what do you think would happen?
You're going to have a bad time.
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If you see the video, there isn't threats or violence. Dude rushes out. I don't consider that violent. Assholieness? Absolutely. Name someone on here that isn't one though.
Watch the video, dude. The guy snatches the cigars from over the counter, the employee comes around the counter to try to stop him from leaving and then the suspect grabs the clerk by the collar and shoves him away. Before he leaves, he doubles back towards the clerk presumably saying something that of a threat as he puffs his chest out like a tough guy..
Gotta say i'm a hundred percent with Alex here. Can't find any reason to defend the guy the way he looked like he was acting. Don't know what he was saying but i would've called the cops. And if he acted in any similar way to the cops, it wouldn't suprise me he got shot.
Shoot for the legs? LMFAO. When you have someone that you're trying to kill (pretty much the only reason you'd draw a lethal weapon is to kill someone)
So in your logic, if a cop pulls a lethal weapon, it should exclusively be used in a lethal manner?
That's crazy talk.
People pull weapons all the time. Not a 100% is to kill. I think there is a fair share just to intimidate.
That could have been enough, shooting in the air could also have provoked a second thought.
the amount of adrenaline pumping through you isn't going to let you focus in on someone's legs. You're aiming for the biggest part of their body, AKA Center of Mass, and you're going to keep unloading until they stop in their tracks.
Sounds like proper gun law indoctrination. Surely if someone pulls a gun on you, you shoot to kill.
If you are trained, and screened, you should be one of the guys that can stay cool and pick a aim. Or are cops in europe just superhuman?
But if the guy is unarmed, and you don't have any indication he's armed, i can't see how just injuring him wouldn't be enough.
And if you do, you don't let him lay there bleeding to death for a couple hours.
Also, comparing any countries violent crimes (Developing nations aside) to the USA's, you're comparing apples and towels.
I know, america is a lot bigger, probably by a factor 20 as far as population goes. Also the gun laws don't help because if people 'might' be armed, more people 'might' get shot with no reason.
BUT i'm in holland and even i got the message of multiple black americans being killed by police just before/after mr Brown, saw some videos on liveleak, and shit just doesn't seem right. If you ask me, -some/most- american cops look too eager to pull the trigger. And sadly it looks like whites are being shot less. Why? That's a good question. Let statistics speak on that one.
Realistically, in the escalation of force, killing someone is the very last option and should ideally only be used to protect yourself or others in the case of grievous harm or death.
Again, I don't know the details, and it wouldn't entirely surprise me that the officer did use excessive force. However, if he genuinely believed he had no other option, then that's fine that he went that route, but there should be a thorough investigation carried out by Internal Affairs and if it's found he stepped out of bounds, take him to trial, if not, then the proper authorities found that he carried out his duties properly.
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Heck I can see rubber rounds being useful for a situation like this, maybe carry 2 weapons one with rubber rounds and the other lethal depending on the situation. I don't know how well rubber would work so I'm just throwing it out there.
That comes with its own set of complications. I seem to remember an incident in New York where an officer meant to use his taser on a suspect, but he unfortunately grabbed his handgun and shot the person instead.
Cops also aren't trained to "shoot to kill". They are trained to stop the threat. If it takes one shot then it takes one. If it takes two then it takes two, etc. Trying to shoot at anything other than Center of Mass while your body is dumping adrenaline would be damn near impossible.
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This whole robbery thing that keeps getting brought up, you know that it has nothing to do with the murder right? And that the owner of the store, nor the employee called 911... http://www.dailykos.com/story/2014/08/18/1322560/-Ferguson-Store-Owner-Says-NO-ONE-From-His-Store-Called-Cops-To-Report-Cigar-Theft
Some other important links/facts: http://land-of-propaganda.tumblr.com/post/102057205628
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2849133/PIERS-MORGAN-farce-Ferguson-Darren-Wilson-6ft-4in-210lb-five-year-old-history.html (Though Piers Morgan sucks, he says some decent things here)
Again, this is more then just an issue about Wilson killing Brown, but it's an issue of race.
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It shouldn't be. If you take away the fact he was black and you even rule out he was at the store stealing shit, the guy who had the altercation with wilson chose to confront him and payed the price. No it shouldn't have escalated to him getting killed but that's just how things played out.
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I work at my parent's liquor store in a not so well off neighborhood these days, I can tell you right now the reason the owner or the employees didn't call the cops is cause altercations like what Micheal Brown did at the store are a daily occurrence. People will flex their muscles from time to time to get what they want, a 2 dollar cigarillo isn't really worth the fight. Customers like Micheal Brown are a dime a dozen, in poor neighborhoods being a thug will get you left alone. If people were to fight over things like that, they'd be much more dead people.
Everyone is a bit of 'thug', it's just how it is, even the kindest people will put up a hard shell. There has been a more than a few instances where someone stole from us and my fellow employee caught them and if they give them a bit of lip, he just beat his ass and threatened to shoot him. People have to know the store is not to be messed or people will be coming here just to steal and possible robbery cause they here someone in the neighborhood is soft. Plus calling the cops isn't an option unless someone is dead or literally robbed the store in gunpoint, in a neighborhood that distrusts cops, it's terrible for business.
Even most the lawful are wary of the cops. There is a lady that comes in, her husband was shot and killed. They labeled his death as 'gang violence' when she knows for a fact he stopped running with those people. I guess there is a feeling that the police don't give the innocent real justice and they feel like their voice isn't heard. If the police wants results, they get the results, even if it means cutting corners to do so. I guess to a lot of people Micheal Brown played out is another case of a police cutting corners to get what they wants.
I can't blame the cop either, I'm sure as a white boy in blue in a neighborhood like Ferguson is tough. There is so much pent up hatred by a few members of these communities for such people. That white boy is more or less fighting a war in a foreign land and it's gotta be scary as shit. In a community where violence is so prevalent, he did nothing different than what others do all the time. Unfortunately for Darren Wilson being the police, he is expected to hold himself to a higher standard, and rightfully so. The police are an easy scapegoat to the greater problems these communities face. Sure they do add a lot to it but its not as cut and dry as people would like to think.
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Thomas031, you're absolutely right. Why would you pull a lethal weapon when your intent isn't to cause harm? If a bad guy pulls a gun on you, you'll definitely shoot a warning shot, in a direction that may or may not ricochet off something and possibly injure/kill someone else. Get a fucking clue. In a LEO world, you pull your weapon, you're prepared to use it.
Gun law indoctrination? No, I live in Canada, nice try jackass. Far different gun laws than the US. You must have way more time at the range than I do, and more time doing simulations and practice run through of tactical scenarios, with live, blank and simmunition. You're right though, in a situation where you could potentially die, you're going to just disarm someone and shoot their foot so they can't keep coming at you, or shoot the gun out of their hands.
Maybe next time you decide to type some idiotic dribble, think and do some research into how police officers are trained this side of the pond. In no way can any place like Holland, UK, France, Italy, etc. Be compared to the US in terms of Law Enforcement. The way the US is vastly different from the rest of the world, and that's before taking the "race war" into account.
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It shouldn't be. If you take away the fact he was black and you even rule out he was at the store stealing shit, the guy who had the altercation with wilson chose to confront him and payed the price. No it shouldn't have escalated to him getting killed but that's just how things played out.
Why shouldn't it be? It's another unarmed black teenager that got killed (by a cop) and no justice was served. Black people are still an oppressed group of people in the States as much as people want to think otherwise, and it's even more prevalent in the justice system you guys have going on down there. They have a right to be upset, and they have a right to make this very much about racism and to let people know that blacks lives matter.
I'll just leave this here though cause it has decent info on a bunch of stuff about this case (include the race thing) http://www.vox.com/cards/mike-brown-protests-ferguson-missouri/ferguson-protests-police-racism
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So the Tamir Rice video has been released, and clearly shows that the police made no effort to disarm the boy, instead just shooting him down immediately.
http://www.theguardian.com/us-news/video/2014/nov/26/cleveland-video-tamir-rice-shooting-police
Not only that, but they lied about it saying they had given him three warnings, and that he was part of a large group of young people. Obviously there are questions as to why a 12 year old boy has a replica gun, but when America glorifies gun ownership so much I am not even a little surprised.
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You're not supposed to shoot at a suspect in the legs because the department can get sued for a fuckton.
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Backward Arse Fucking Hickville. Rename your country to that.
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. . .
That white boy is more or less fighting a war in a foreign land and it's gotta be scary as shit.
. . . .
This is telling. African-Americans are not foreign. I know exactly what you mean though. A lot of white people do have this mentality. They literally say things like "such and such neighborhood is like a third world country."
You see why Black people would be so upset by this? They are as American as American gets and they're still being treated by the cops as if the cops are European colonialists in Africa, along the lines of a famous (but false) quote "The natives are restless." http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=557415 (http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=557415)
I would say that Officer Wilson's assertion that he felt "fear" and was claiming to being overpowered was the sub-conscious cue for a lot of people. How could a 6'4" tall police officer be that fearful of another unarmed 6'4" man? Only in the cultural context of white people's fear of black anger.
Which again, your statement is so telling: "I'm sure as a white boy in blue in a neighborhood like Ferguson is tough. There is so much pent up hatred by a few members of these communities for such people."
White people feel their fear is justified, and jurors sympathize with the white police officer over that. They are not empathizing with black people's fear of the police in the same way.
But, I'm not stupid. I get it. If I worked in that liquor store in that neighborhood, there would be lots of times I'd be scared too.
And that's the same in every country that has "bad neighborhoods." Canada and Europe included. It's just that the thugs and police in those countries have a lot fewer guns.
Community policing is the theory that police who patrol certain areas should be culturally from or connected to those areas. This wasn't the case in Ferguson--where all the officers are white and from a different part of St. Louis.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Community_policing (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Community_policing) What if the police officer was from that neighborhood and maybe even knew Michael Brown? http://www.blackpolice.org/ (http://www.blackpolice.org/) Likely that the whole thing could have played out differently.
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My view from across the pond is that Americas attitude towards authority, and separately towards black people, is massively fucked up
Black people are treated as inherently different, as if somehow it is genetic that they have such a different culture. Part of me wonders if this is just a denial of accepting any responsibility for the situation of some ghettos and that America is responsible for such a large percentage of the black community being so poor.
Secondly, positioning police and other 'authority' figures on some kind of pedestal, immune to being held responsible for their actions, and a culture which covers up their mistakes which are no doubt prejudice influenced.
What worries me more is how much the UK is moving towards a US mentality in many other ways, which I fear will end up in similar situations
Like:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Death_of_Mark_Duggan (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Death_of_Mark_Duggan)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2011_England_riots (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2011_England_riots)
?
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I'm not sure what you are implying, however there was at least a long inquest into the death of Mark Duggan and it is one of the very rare times that police officers have used lethal force. I was unhappy with the eventual verdict, and it is a good example of the direction I don't want our police force heading in but I feel that the officers involved were asked to fully account for their actions.
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This is telling. African-Americans are not foreign. I know exactly what you mean though. A lot of white people do have this mentality. They literally say things like "such and such neighborhood is like a third world country."
You see why Black people would be so upset by this? They are as American as American gets and they're still being treated by the cops as if the cops are European colonialists in Africa, along the lines of a famous (but false) quote "The natives are restless."
I'm not implying these neighborhoods aren't part of America, but a different part of America a lot of people aren't exposed to. Texas is different from California, Chinatown is different from Tucson. This country is too big and diverse to be one thing but...
Your right a lot of people view the ghettos in a different light than from what they view the rest of America. Whatever bad shit happens in the ghettos, as long as it stays in the ghetto, it's their problem, like it's not something that is happening all across America. Something bad happens in 'mainstream' America the news are trying to fix it for weeks.
I would say that Officer Wilson's assertion that he felt "fear" and was claiming to being overpowered was the sub-conscious cue for a lot of people. How could a 6'4" tall police officer be that fearful of another unarmed 6'4" man? Only in the cultural context of white people's fear of black anger.
Which again, your statement is so telling: "I'm sure as a white boy in blue in a neighborhood like Ferguson is tough. There is so much pent up hatred by a few members of these communities for such people."
White people feel their fear is justified, and jurors sympathize with the white police officer over that. They are not empathizing with black people's fear of the police in the same way.
All that stuff is beyond me honestly, like I said earlier I don't think things are as cut and dry as a lot of people like to believe. I don't really get what it means to be black or white in , cause for fucking sure most people don't know what it means to be yellow and consider yourself American(that's a headache in itself). I do wish people could have more open discussions on the matter instead rushing to jump one one side whenever something happens between a white person and black person. In my experience dealing with people of all types of backgrounds, cultures, and races(perks of moving a lot and living in DC), most people are to busy with their lives to care about trivial shit like that and that's a good thing.
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Except it isn't trivial shit when people are being killed because of it, it's daily oppression
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My view from across the pond is that Americas attitude towards authority, and separately towards black people, is massively fucked up
Black people are treated as inherently different, as if somehow it is genetic that they have such a different culture. Part of me wonders if this is just a denial of accepting any responsibility for the situation of some ghettos and that America is responsible for such a large percentage of the black community being so poor.
Secondly, positioning police and other 'authority' figures on some kind of pedestal, immune to being held responsible for their actions, and a culture which covers up their mistakes which are no doubt prejudice influenced.
What worries me more is how much the UK is moving towards a US mentality in many other ways, which I fear will end up in similar situations
If I may ask . . . what ways do you think the UK is moving towards a US mentality?
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My view from across the pond is that Americas attitude towards authority, and separately towards black people, is massively fucked up
Black people are treated as inherently different, as if somehow it is genetic that they have such a different culture. Part of me wonders if this is just a denial of accepting any responsibility for the situation of some ghettos and that America is responsible for such a large percentage of the black community being so poor.
Secondly, positioning police and other 'authority' figures on some kind of pedestal, immune to being held responsible for their actions, and a culture which covers up their mistakes which are no doubt prejudice influenced.
What worries me more is how much the UK is moving towards a US mentality in many other ways, which I fear will end up in similar situations
If I may ask . . . what ways do you think the UK is moving towards a US mentality?
Basically the conservatives want to privatise even more of the UK including the NHS. With the NHS, the plan so far has been decrease funding and use the increasingly poor results as ammunition to support the dickfaces argument while at the same time kind of hide your investments/paychecks in/from private healthcare.
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America could have gone that way in the 1960s:
https://youtube.com/watch?v=14A1zxaHpD8
(https://youtube.com/watch?v=14A1zxaHpD8)
Nixon, then Reagan, made sure it didn't happen. Thatcher and Reagan were of the same mind.