Bikeguide.org - Bike maintenance for BMX'ers
The Street => The Bike Shop => Topic started by: streetStreet on October 09, 2014, 10:22:35 AM
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http://www.3ride.com/v2/detail/?itemID=11669
The ratchet spindle bolts are a nice touch!
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I think 24mm cranks look kind of goofy because the crank arm has to taper so much between the spindle and pedal bosses. I think the ratchet bolts are a cool idea, especially because they still have a bore for allen keys.
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Cool idea with the bolt. Wonder if its Deep enough so that the fit is similar to a socket wrench.
Why is it that cranks are going back to the splined 3-piece design? I thought that 2-piece was the new standard. Seems like 24mm cranks are all 3-piece.
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Cool idea with the bolt. Wonder if its Deep enough so that the fit is similar to a socket wrench.
Why is it that cranks are going back to the splined 3-piece design? I thought that 2-piece was the new standard. Seems like 24mm cranks are all 3-piece.
I feel the 3 piece design is easier for companies to produce because then you only have to make 1 arm and 1 spindle which is compatible for both lhd/rhd. With a 2 piece design you need to create both rhd and lhd separately
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Bolt idea is cool,but are 24mm spindles really that stronger?
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3-piece cranks also allow for spline drive sprockets on both sides, whereas 2-piece cranks generally don't.
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Spline drive sprockets make the drivetrain feel solid.
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BMX really needs self extracting cranks.
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thunderbolts.
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Spline drive sprockets make the drivetrain feel solid.
shit chains and tight spots should be ending soon
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BMX really needs self extracting cranks.
Check out the new Eclat Aeon Cranks coming out in November, easiest cranks ever to install :)
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^tell me more.
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BMX really needs self extracting cranks.
Check out the new Eclat Aeon Cranks coming out in November, easiest cranks ever to install :)
I guess Germans dont have a word for market saturation. They look good though, I guess.
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http://www.alansbmx.com/1625011/products/eclat_aeon_2_piece_cranks_black.aspx
lolwut?
Idk but i wouldn't drill holes and slits in axles that need to take enormous radial loads on that exact spot.
Sure it would make installation easier but damn. I'd be scared riding them i think.
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(http://images.alansbmx.com/images/2-cpec15aeon175chr.jpg?width=400)
Eclat aeon with a wedge.
Edit: beat me to it. Had the pagr left open haha.
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(http://images.alansbmx.com/images/2-cpec15aeon175chr.jpg?width=400)
Eclat aeon with a wedge.
Edit: beat me to it. Had the pagr left open haha.
np, team work bruh!
i post the criticism, you post the pics! 8)
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Doesn't profile do that on the Elite cranks?
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splines are still splines. that said my dirt cheap eclat cranks (whatever the first style ones are called) havent wobbled yet so maybe the larger spindle works better.
its pretty mad that so many companies keep trying to tweak the splined crank interface slightly to make them easier to install and remove when theres this magic stuff called "grease" which is easily available and already does just that.
its also real versatile, you can even use it on other parts of your bike which might get seized! imagine that...
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not trying to take points away from your comment but let me 1 up it. grease does make every mechanic component better and could also expand the life span of it.
splines are still splines. that said my dirt cheap eclat cranks (whatever the first style ones are called) havent wobbled yet so maybe the larger spindle works better.
its pretty mad that so many companies keep trying to tweak the splined crank interface slightly to make them easier to install and remove when theres this magic stuff called "grease" which is easily available and already does just that.
its also real versatile, you can even use it on other parts of your bike which might get seized! imagine that...
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You'd think it would be cheaper to provide a sachet of grease than keep redesigning
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splines are still splines. that said my dirt cheap eclat cranks (whatever the first style ones are called) havent wobbled yet so maybe the larger spindle works better.
its pretty mad that so many companies keep trying to tweak the splined crank interface slightly to make them easier to install and remove when theres this magic stuff called "grease" which is easily available and already does just that.
its also real versatile, you can even use it on other parts of your bike which might get seized! imagine that...
So if you were designing splined cranks how would you set the fit?
Standard good engineering practice calls for a slight interference (hole smaller than axle) to prevent looseness and wear.
Easy assembly and disassembly calls for a slightly loose fit (hole larger than axle) to allow the axle to slide easily in and out.
You cannot have both and grease will only do so much to ease assembly and disassembly and of course on top of this you need to allow a tolerance....
Having said this, I am obviously not going to defend a design that saws slits into something as highly stressed as this where the slits nobviously massively reduce the torsional strength.
:)
G.
PS nobviously was a typo but too good to "correct"
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I don't understand the problem with installing and removing cranks..
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It costs less to make slits in the axle than to include a crank puller in the box. Plus they can market it as a "new innovative" design to make life easier for bmxers lol. Still don't like the new eclat aeon, and fuck 24mm cranks. Also the ratchet slot on the demolition cranks is useless. Not only is the bb going to shit the bed faster because it's 24mm, but also because kids are going to over tighten them 100%. I get enough torque with allen keys, I don't see a point of more. This is such a gimmick.
to who ever was talking about grease as the magical remedy, it's more of a necessity rather than anything else(any metal on metal should be greased). With tight cranks you will still have trouble even with grease. Thats why the animal cranks come with both grease and a crank puller. In other words, I can see how kids new to bmx can have trouble with 48 spline cranks. This is what the companies are banking for. They are trying to make money from the large, growing demographic of kids just entering bmx. You obviously wouldn't like the cranks or the idea, because you are not the target market.
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splines are still splines. that said my dirt cheap eclat cranks (whatever the first style ones are called) havent wobbled yet so maybe the larger spindle works better.
its pretty mad that so many companies keep trying to tweak the splined crank interface slightly to make them easier to install and remove when theres this magic stuff called "grease" which is easily available and already does just that.
its also real versatile, you can even use it on other parts of your bike which might get seized! imagine that...
So if you were designing splined cranks how would you set the fit?
Standard good engineering practice calls for a slight interference (hole smaller than axle) to prevent looseness and wear.
Easy assembly and disassembly calls for a slightly loose fit (hole larger than axle) to allow the axle to slide easily in and out.
You cannot have both and grease will only do so much to ease assembly and disassembly and of course on top of this you need to allow a tolerance....
Having said this, I am obviously not going to defend a design that saws slits into something as highly stressed as this where the slits nobviously massively reduce the torsional strength.
:)
G.
PS nobviously was a typo but too good to "correct"
well for starters if i was designing cranks i wouldnt use splines. having to ensure a tight enough fit, yet still allowing enough movement to allow them to be removed is exactly why its a shit design. either they wobble all the time or theyre so tight you have to cut them off.
which is why i dont understand why people keep fannying about with this stupid design. yes it was good in the 80s when the alternatives were 1pc cranks or steel cranks with pinchbolts, but its still a design of convenience for profile cos they were making race car steering wheels with the same splined interface or something like that if i remember correctly.
i guess noone wants to spend money developing a different design that might work better (apart from you apparently), so its rehashed splines or rehashed shitter looking powerbite clones (which lots of people dont like anyway because of how they look). as with all bmx parts these days, unless youre patented up to the eyeballs, someone will just rip off your design that you invested in designing in the first place
only reason im riding splined cranks atm way cos they were so cheap. next time ill buy thunderbolts, dont you worry.
always primos before i got wombolts (which is what i had before my eclats), i just ground down the pedal insert too much to feel safe with them (they were first gen so olddddd) and the wedges were crushed and fucked so ironically they had a bit of wobble in them
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48 spline cranks are fine if they tolerance/fit is tight enough (cranks pullers yo!)
odyssey wedge design seems good too, but i think it would be better to not have to fuck around with the wedges.
pressfit cranks with tapered spines seem like a good idea to me, not sure it would work with steel cranks though.
i prefer pinch bolt cranks, ones with splines. but as g mentioned somewhere the bolts can get fucked up grinding on them.
in the end i think every crank design is faulted in some way "the best crank" is going to be different for different people, their riding, mechanical abilities/intelligence.
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(http://scontent-a.cdninstagram.com/hphotos-xaf1/t51.2885-15/10725094_1539889149589711_504784211_n.jpg)
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splines are still splines. that said my dirt cheap eclat cranks (whatever the first style ones are called) havent wobbled yet so maybe the larger spindle works better.
its pretty mad that so many companies keep trying to tweak the splined crank interface slightly to make them easier to install and remove when theres this magic stuff called "grease" which is easily available and already does just that.
its also real versatile, you can even use it on other parts of your bike which might get seized! imagine that...
So if you were designing splined cranks how would you set the fit?
Standard good engineering practice calls for a slight interference (hole smaller than axle) to prevent looseness and wear.
Easy assembly and disassembly calls for a slightly loose fit (hole larger than axle) to allow the axle to slide easily in and out.
You cannot have both and grease will only do so much to ease assembly and disassembly and of course on top of this you need to allow a tolerance....
Having said this, I am obviously not going to defend a design that saws slits into something as highly stressed as this where the slits nobviously massively reduce the torsional strength.
:)
G.
PS nobviously was a typo but too good to "correct"
well for starters if i was designing cranks i wouldnt use splines. having to ensure a tight enough fit, yet still allowing enough movement to allow them to be removed is exactly why its a shit design. either they wobble all the time or theyre so tight you have to cut them off.
Man you are pissing in the wind. First you say how awesome your cheap eclats are and that all they need is grease to make them fit and work better, now you say the whole design is shit.
(http://scontent-a.cdninstagram.com/hphotos-xaf1/t51.2885-15/10725094_1539889149589711_504784211_n.jpg)
I like primo cranks for the strength, but man it took me so long to get use to the boxiness of them. Always smashing into the navicular bone. I think thats the part of the foot, only relying on a quick good search
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Woah, is this a bg exclusive or am I just miles behind the times? They look like a real improvement.
In reference to the primos that is...
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I've never seen those Powerbites before either.
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Woah, is this a bg exclusive or am I just miles behind the times? They look like a real improvement.
In reference to the primos that is...
http://themerged.com/spotted-primo-2pc-powerbite-crank/
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It costs less to make slits in the axle than to include a crank puller in the box. Plus they can market it as a "new innovative" design to make life easier for bmxers lol. Still don't like the new eclat aeon, and fuck 24mm cranks. Also the ratchet slot on the demolition cranks is useless. Not only is the bb going to shit the bed faster because it's 24mm, but also because kids are going to over tighten them 100%. I get enough torque with allen keys, I don't see a point of more. This is such a gimmick.
to who ever was talking about grease as the magical remedy, it's more of a necessity rather than anything else(any metal on metal should be greased). With tight cranks you will still have trouble even with grease. Thats why the animal cranks come with both grease and a crank puller. In other words, I can see how kids new to bmx can have trouble with 48 spline cranks. This is what the companies are banking for. They are trying to make money from the large, growing demographic of kids just entering bmx. You obviously wouldn't like the cranks or the idea, because you are not the target market.
My 22mm Spline cranks worked totally fine for me. I'm currently riding free Macneil 19mm ones and theyre "okay", but I wouldnt by 19mm again. When you talk about people over tightening cranks and ruining BB's that has nothing to do with splines and everything to do with spacers between the bearing's. IF the splined design was so faulty we wouldnt see it in as many applications as its in.
Here is some stuff you did touch on though:
- Gimmicks
- User error
- Business and Ethics
and a bunch of words to string that shitty shit together. The spliner that makes the splines probably has splines.
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Man you are pissing in the wind. First you say how awesome your cheap eclats are and that all they need is grease to make them fit and work better, now you say the whole design is shit.
no i said the only reason i have them is cos i got them for $20.
i have see so many fuckin people with splined cranks (usually profiles or other 19mm style ones) that they cannot get off their bike cos they fitted them without grease and the arm has seized and rusted onto the axle. you can prevent this from happening with the application of grease, but its still a shit design for all the reasons i said before.
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so what you're really saying is we need idiot proofed cranks
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so what you're really saying is we need idiot proofed cranks
They will never be made cause some idiot will find a way to mess them up.
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Man you are pissing in the wind. First you say how awesome your cheap eclats are and that all they need is grease to make them fit and work better, now you say the whole design is shit.
no i said the only reason i have them is cos i got them for $20.
i have see so many fuckin people with splined cranks (usually profiles or other 19mm style ones) that they cannot get off their bike cos they fitted them without grease and the arm has seized and rusted onto the axle. you can prevent this from happening with the application of grease, but its still a shit design for all the reasons i said before.
Older Profile cranks had threaded arms so you could use an actual crank extractor to get them off. They seem to have removed this feature now though.
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either they wobble all the time or theyre so tight you have to cut them off.
What? Just...no.
Older Profile cranks had threaded arms so you could use an actual crank extractor to get them off. They seem to have removed this feature now though.
Which is great if you have to take them off the first time you install them. Miss a couple of grinds and those threads are fucked. Its hard enough to get the flushmount bolt washers out after a few missed grinds.
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i don't see why people don't just tap the spindle/flush bolts with a rubber mallet or a hammer.
That's what i do with my Kinks, works great. Essentially just a crank puller for cavemen.
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either they wobble all the time or theyre so tight you have to cut them off.
What? Just...no.
Older Profile cranks had threaded arms so you could use an actual crank extractor to get them off. They seem to have removed this feature now though.
Which is great if you have to take them off the first time you install them. Miss a couple of grinds and those threads are fucked. Its hard enough to get the flushmount bolt washers out after a few missed grinds.
this. they fold over real easily
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either they wobble all the time or theyre so tight you have to cut them off.
What? Just...no.
Older Profile cranks had threaded arms so you could use an actual crank extractor to get them off. They seem to have removed this feature now though.
Which is great if you have to take them off the first time you install them. Miss a couple of grinds and those threads are fucked. Its hard enough to get the flushmount bolt washers out after a few missed grinds.
this. they fold over real easily
You can fix that problem quite easily, when I had 19mm versions I just ground down the front of the washer 1 or 2mm, perfecto
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I have been on profile-esque cranks for years and hate how difficult it is to take the cranks apart. But its not the end of the world as it normally only has to be done maybe once a year to change b/b or sprocket.
The system is not perfect but is developed and tested to work, so why spend money on it when you can just start selling something with a gimmick without much R&D and make a big buck?
Props for eclat and G to try and develop the crank market.
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I have been on profile-esque cranks for years and hate how difficult it is to take the cranks apart. But its not the end of the world as it normally only has to be done maybe once a year to change b/b or sprocket.
The system is not perfect but is developed and tested to work, so why spend money on it when you can just start selling something with a gimmick without much R&D and make a big buck?
Props for eclat and G to try and develop the crank market.
I think Eclat might be onto something with their new 48s/ wedge system, even though Profile did it before them on their Column Race cranks, It'll definitely make for easier installation and removal me thinks.
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I have been on profile-esque cranks for years and hate how difficult it is to take the cranks apart. But its not the end of the world as it normally only has to be done maybe once a year to change b/b or sprocket.
The system is not perfect but is developed and tested to work, so why spend money on it when you can just start selling something with a gimmick without much R&D and make a big buck?
Props for eclat and G to try and develop the crank market.
I think Eclat might be onto something with their new 48s/ wedge system, even though Profile did it before them on their Column Race cranks, It'll definitely make for easier installation and removal me thinks.
They work slightly different from the Elite cranks, with a bullet looking thing that is threaded and goes in the thru the other side of the spindle that the bolt threads in to, rather than having a taper on the head of the bolt itself.
They do simplify the actual sliding on and off of the arm, it just slides right off, but you need a long 8mm to hold the bullet wedge in place during tightening and loosening. They way I see it, its kind of a pain in the ass and I'd rather just install and uninstall my cranks the old fashioned way, but then again, I have never had a 48 spline crank wobble in such a way that I couldnt stop it. Seriously, the profile wobble thing is blown pretty far out of proportion on this website in my experience.
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I have been on profile-esque cranks for years and hate how difficult it is to take the cranks apart. But its not the end of the world as it normally only has to be done maybe once a year to change b/b or sprocket.
The system is not perfect but is developed and tested to work, so why spend money on it when you can just start selling something with a gimmick without much R&D and make a big buck?
Props for eclat and G to try and develop the crank market.
I think Eclat might be onto something with their new 48s/ wedge system, even though Profile did it before them on their Column Race cranks, It'll definitely make for easier installation and removal me thinks.
They work slightly different from the Elite cranks, with a bullet looking thing that is threaded and goes in the thru the other side of the spindle that the bolt threads in to, rather than having a taper on the head of the bolt itself.
They do simplify the actual sliding on and off of the arm, it just slides right off, but you need a long 8mm to hold the bullet wedge in place during tightening and loosening. They way I see it, its kind of a pain in the ass and I'd rather just install and uninstall my cranks the old fashioned way, but then again, I have never had a 48 spline crank wobble in such a way that I couldnt stop it. Seriously, the profile wobble thing is blown pretty far out of proportion on this website in my experience.
I guess some poeple just have badluck sometimes when it comes to parts I will say for my self I've had my fair share of defected parts, but for my 3 pairs of profile race's and my columns they've been perfect, no wobble what so ever, can't say the say for a pair of eastern Ti cranks I had a while back couldn't even get to use them because they literally would slide on the 19mm spindle and not only that once the crank bolts where tightened down they would wobble on the splines back and forth and side to side and I was pissed about that because they weren't cheap had them replaced same thing happened not a bad as the first set but still un-rideable so I gave up on trying to get a replacement and wen't back to profiles.
Have you seen the Mutant Bionic cranks, they look like it would be a pain to install un-install, I think it's unnecessary.
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Do they really not come with a tube spacer?