Bikeguide.org - Bike maintenance for BMX'ers
The Street => The Bike Shop => Topic started by: Boomhauer on September 08, 2014, 03:37:27 PM
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Is their freecoaster running on pixie dust? Wheres the cromoly drive side guard? Is the Simian hub real or something Skomar made up while smoking ice?
Atop that, what has Odyssey not told us about, I'm sure we'll see something nobody knew about pop up at interbike..
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"Gspprt"
(http://statici.behindthevoiceactors.com/behindthevoiceactors/_img/chars/char_6993.jpg)
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Is their freecoaster running on pixie dust? Wheres the cromoly drive side guard? Is the Simian hub real or something Skomar made up while smoking ice?
Atop that, what has Odyssey not told us about, I'm sure we'll see something nobody knew about pop up at interbike..
I sure hope we see the coaster from them who's patient stopped Profile dead in their tracks with their FC plan.
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I sure hope we see the coaster from them who's patient stopped Profile dead in their tracks with their FC plan.
oh damn
(https://warosu.org/data/sci/img/0066/48/1405550555444.gif)
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simian rear is most likely next year.
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I too am curious about the hub. I initially threw it off as another "KHE-clone" but if this one actually packs something new, which wouldnt surprise me as G has swung his magic wand towards it.
I would gladly be put corrected for thinking its a "copy".
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I'll be hassling the Odyssey / Full Factory guys first thing Wednesday. George, will you be in attendance?
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I sure hope we see the coaster from them who's patient stopped Profile dead in their tracks with their FC plan.
oh damn
(https://warosu.org/data/sci/img/0066/48/1405550555444.gif)
haha yeah of course that patient could be the g-coaster stuff, which I think we aren't suppose to expect soon?
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I'm in the market for cranks--I'd like to see something fresh.
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"Gspprt"
(http://statici.behindthevoiceactors.com/behindthevoiceactors/_img/chars/char_6993.jpg)
I'm posting from a phone, give me a break.
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I need to see what we are revealing at Interbike before I put anything too major here, but I can tease some of the differences:-
There are a few standard industrial bearings, bolts from our other hubs etc, but otherwise the ONLY part that is interchangeable with other hubs is the hub shell liner.
There are no 6802 bearings in it.
The lowest rated bearing in it is rated at 6000 Newtons.
The silver ring is not just for show.
:)
G.
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The silver ring is not just for show.
I knew it, magnets
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"Gspprt"
I'm posting from a phone, give me a break.
I'm just fucking with you
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:)
G.
Is there a chance that we will ever see an updated version of the old race hub? I've been looking for an affordable set of hubs that don't weight as much as a boat anchor and take 12t or 13t cogs for ages. Profile is pretty much the only option and they are insanely expensive over here.
I'm not holding my breath that we will ever see a nice railed seat from Odyssey but it sure would be nice.
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:)
G.
Is there a chance that we will ever see an updated version of the old race hub? I've been looking for an affordable set of hubs that don't weight as much as a boat anchor and take 12t or 13t cogs for ages. Profile is pretty much the only option and they are insanely expensive over here.
I'm not holding my breath that we will ever see a nice railed seat from Odyssey but it sure would be nice.
Unlikely sorry.
To save you time asking, we will also not be making:-
Threaded 1" forks.
Rod brakes
Tape decks
Acetylene lamps
Tweed riding hats
or Solid tyres
:)
G.
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:)
G.
Is there a chance that we will ever see an updated version of the old race hub? I've been looking for an affordable set of hubs that don't weight as much as a boat anchor and take 12t or 13t cogs for ages. Profile is pretty much the only option and they are insanely expensive over here.
I'm not holding my breath that we will ever see a nice railed seat from Odyssey but it sure would be nice.
Unlikely sorry.
To save you time asking, we will also not be making:-
Threaded 1" forks.
Rod brakes
Tape decks
Acetylene lamps
Tweed riding hats
or Solid tyres
:)
G.
are you saying that railed seats and large cogs are obsolete? or are you just saying odyssey/gsport above such a thing.
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or Solid tyres
:)
G.
If you guys are not making can you c/d that Solid is making them in house?
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:)
G.
Is there a chance that we will ever see an updated version of the old race hub? I've been looking for an affordable set of hubs that don't weight as much as a boat anchor and take 12t or 13t cogs for ages. Profile is pretty much the only option and they are insanely expensive over here.
I'm not holding my breath that we will ever see a nice railed seat from Odyssey but it sure would be nice.
Unlikely sorry.
To save you time asking, we will also not be making:-
Threaded 1" forks.
Rod brakes
Tape decks
Acetylene lamps
Tweed riding hats
or Solid tyres
:)
G.
are you saying that railed seats and large cogs are obsolete? or are you just saying odyssey/gsport above such a thing.
I think both you and I know he's saying that they wouldnt sell well enough to make it worth it, but being confrontational is just too fun right?
However lack of odyssey tweed is fucking ridiculous.
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:)
G.
Is there a chance that we will ever see an updated version of the old race hub? I've been looking for an affordable set of hubs that don't weight as much as a boat anchor and take 12t or 13t cogs for ages. Profile is pretty much the only option and they are insanely expensive over here.
I'm not holding my breath that we will ever see a nice railed seat from Odyssey but it sure would be nice.
Unlikely sorry.
To save you time asking, we will also not be making:-
Threaded 1" forks.
Rod brakes
Tape decks
Acetylene lamps
Tweed riding hats
or Solid tyres
:)
G.
are you saying that railed seats and large cogs are obsolete? or are you just saying odyssey/gsport above such a thing.
he didnt say that implicitly but they are. only people buying them are the older/trails guys buying up old stock. the money is with what kids want to buy which is yellow tyres and cultshit
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Barcodebilly has them all
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I was just trying to be funny. ... But obviously not managing it. ..
There is undoubtedly still a small market for these things but we are unlikely to try to fill it, especiallywhen there is probably old stock out there reduced and waiting for buyers. ..
:)
G.
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Would love to see a 4 pawl design on the new G-sport rear hub, or a driver for a Ratchet with an extra pawl
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that's cool.
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I'd be happy if Odys made some Directors again. I still run some v1's and love them for the fact that they'll pretty much never hang up on any grind.
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What about Odyssey Weed? Will you be offering any of that for 2014?
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I'd be happy if Odys made some Directors again. I still run some v1's and love them for the fact that they'll pretty much never hang up on any grind.
The old CS2s would hang up but now with the new R32 legs, I haven't had an issue. Much more room
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I'd be happy if Odys made some Directors again. I still run some v1's and love them for the fact that they'll pretty much never hang up on any grind.
directors with 990s please
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25mm directors.
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I'd be happy if Odys made some Directors again. I still run some v1's and love them for the fact that they'll pretty much never hang up on any grind.
directors with 990s please
weld some on ,pussy.
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Lets see these Odyssey x Vans joints. I pray they're not cheesy.
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Clearly my intel was weak on that profile coaster, even though I heard it front he guy that brought profile the design. Weird.
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13.2mm offset directors with 12mm dropout slots and disc mounts plz or im never buying odyssey stuff again
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I need to see what we are revealing at Interbike before I put anything too major here, but I can tease some of the differences:-
There are a few standard industrial bearings, bolts from our other hubs etc, but otherwise the ONLY part that is interchangeable with other hubs is the hub shell liner.
There are no 6802 bearings in it.
The lowest rated bearing in it is rated at 6000 Newtons.
The silver ring is not just for show.
:)
G.
http://instagram.com/p/s0CPg8NWNc/
:)
G.
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I am crying tears of joy on the inside Mr. French. Had I been within your proximity I would hug you.
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G can we get some side by side comparison shots of the dugan pedal and a trailmix? TY
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there are some on g's instagram, i think he's gsportgeorge on there
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G can we get some side by side comparison shots of the dugan pedal and a trailmix? TY
there are some on g's instagram, i think he's gsportgeorge on there
Yes.
http://instagram.com/gsportgeorge
:)
G.
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Did baking the freezers pcb work?
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I love large pedals. If this is larger than the twisted it will be my next pedal
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How concave are those pedals?
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Did baking the freezers pcb work?
Did it fuck.... well actually it did fix the eratic behaviour of the control unit, but it also confirmed that the refrigerant has probably leaked, which is the bigger problem. Was worth a shot.
I love large pedals. If this is larger than the twisted it will be my next pedal
It is.
A good 8mm in both width and length.... but about 7mm thinner too.
How concave are those pedals?
That is a hard thing to quantify, its a dual/full-360degree concave. Middle is about 3mm lower than the outer corners, where the Trailmix was about 2mm lower in the middle than at the inner and outer edges (the Trailmix are single-axis concave).
In other words, more, they feel great.
:)
G.
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I love large pedals. If this is larger than the twisted it will be my next pedal
It is.
A good 8mm in both width and length.... but about 7mm thinner too.
When you say 7mm thinner, are you talking about the actual height of the pedal body, or the thickness of the plastic in relation to the axle. I am really interested in the dugan pedals, but I also love pedal grinding so a thicker plastic to grind through is pretty important for me. For example my fly pedals only lasted a few grinds before I wore them down till there was nothing left, whereas my eclats have been going strong for about a year. Thanks G!
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I love large pedals. If this is larger than the twisted it will be my next pedal
It is.
A good 8mm in both width and length.... but about 7mm thinner too.
When you say 7mm thinner, are you talking about the actual height of the pedal body, or the thickness of the plastic in relation to the axle. I am really interested in the dugan pedals, but I also love pedal grinding so a thicker plastic to grind through is pretty important for me. For example my fly pedals only lasted a few grinds before I wore them down till there was nothing left, whereas my eclats have been going strong for about a year. Thanks G!
Actual body thickness. There is more thickness over the "guts" than the twisted (depending how and where you grind).
:)
G.
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Before my next cassette purchase, i just need to know if a plastic Antigram hubguard is still in the works.
There were posts of Aaron Ross supposedly running one in dec. 2012?
Please make a poor man happy today G!
Coming from plastic hubguards going to alu makes zero sense in my mind, haha.
Such a smooth slide to it. Better than unprotected sex
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Bsd had one on show at interbike don't know if its already available ,js
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Before my next cassette purchase, i just need to know if a plastic Antigram hubguard is still in the works.
There were posts of Aaron Ross supposedly running one in dec. 2012?
Please make a poor man happy today G!
Coming from plastic hubguards going to alu makes zero sense in my mind, haha.
Such a smooth slide to it. Better than unprotected sex
we have one in the pipeline but as mentioned BSD also look like they have one and that looks pretty much ready to buy.
:)
G.
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Before my next cassette purchase, i just need to know if a plastic Antigram hubguard is still in the works.
There were posts of Aaron Ross supposedly running one in dec. 2012?
Please make a poor man happy today G!
Coming from plastic hubguards going to alu makes zero sense in my mind, haha.
Such a smooth slide to it. Better than unprotected sex
If you cant get the actual bsd for antigram guard the bsd for profile guard works with a bit of filing. Ive been running it since i got my antigram ptretty much.
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we have one in the pipeline but as mentioned BSD also look like they have one and that looks pretty much ready to buy.
:)
G.
Hope they are paying some royalties to Ody for that shit. Probably not.
But that's all i need to know. Antigram is the one for me then.
@ Badlight
Thanks for that info, going to look into that!
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I'm stoked on the coaster and the pedals. I didn't think there'd be enough interest to develop new metal ones. My Reloader and Trailmixes will need to be replaced someday.
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So these new pedals have a larger platform and are thinner than trailmixes? Mine are nearing retirement and I'm interested.
When are they out?
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So these new pedals have a larger platform and are thinner than trailmixes? Mine are nearing retirement and I'm interested.
When are they out?
Yes.
When they are ready. All the production tooling is either finished or close to being finished so hopefully late this year or early next. These are brand new from the ground up so it takes a bit longer than the typical "re-badge", "different pins" or "custom body on stock axle and bearings"...
:)
G.
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Sounds good. I'm down to try new products.
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Yes.
When they are ready. All the production tooling is either finished or close to being finished so hopefully late this year or early next. These are brand new from the ground up so it takes a bit longer than the typical "re-badge", "different pins" or "custom body on stock axle and bearings"...
:)
G.
I'd be interested in a vague write up about creating a product from the ground up. How once it's approved you get a prototype, test, repeat, go to taiwan, manufacture, check, repeat etc. It'd be interesting to compare the amount of effort and time that goes into it compared to 10000 of product y with branding z on it.
Obviously you have different observations and perspective having worked extensively by yourself for GSport and then under Odyssey, Sunday and Fairdale.
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Yes.
When they are ready. All the production tooling is either finished or close to being finished so hopefully late this year or early next. These are brand new from the ground up so it takes a bit longer than the typical "re-badge", "different pins" or "custom body on stock axle and bearings"...
:)
G.
I'd be interested in a vague write up about creating a product from the ground up. How once it's approved you get a prototype, test, repeat, go to taiwan, manufacture, check, repeat etc. It'd be interesting to compare the amount of effort and time that goes into it compared to 10000 of product y with branding z on it.
Obviously you have different observations and perspective having worked extensively by yourself for GSport and then under Odyssey, Sunday and Fairdale.
Make a new thread and I will see what I can come up with, but it obviously varies enormously depending on the product and how radical it is.
:)
G.
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Has anyone seen anything about the Chase Hawk bike bag?
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Nope, but I'm ordering myself one as soon as the order sheet gets sent to me at work! I've asked pretty much everytime I've placed an order and don't think they are too far off now.
Any more info G? Is it using similar materials to the DK bag? Will it actually protect the bike or what?
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Nope, but I'm ordering myself one as soon as the order sheet gets sent to me at work! I've asked pretty much everytime I've placed an order and don't think they are too far off now.
Any more info G? Is it using similar materials to the DK bag? Will it actually protect the bike or what?
Looking at this:- http://instagram.com/p/t5f6UTxPAr/
It looks a lot shorter than my actual Golf bag, but a little wider. I chose the widest golf bag I could find and the wheels still make obvious bulges out the sides so this looks a lot better fit. Usually I reckon the tyres are good protection at the bottom, and then use my clothes to pad the rest with my helmet over the headtube, but this looks to be slightly padded as well.
I've heard it is going to be approximately the same price as the DK bag.
I should know more next week when I am expecting to see one in person.
:)
G.
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Any word on Socket Drive? Seems like its been fairly dead for a while. Any plans on pushing it more?
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Any word on Socket Drive? Seems like its been fairly dead for a while. Any plans on pushing it more?
I like the socket drive system
Surprised it hasn't taken off more, especially considering the production rights are free
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ive seen a few more sprockets coming out in socket drive, its cool because the interface can facilitate inserts that can convert to spline drive meaning you dont need to switch to socket drive cranks straight away.
i guess the issue for most companies is making a compatible crankset. be hard to include the interface on a 3pc (unless you build it into the arm). maybe if more people knew about it and more companies were pushing it, it might catch on. if sprockets go below 25t again it could catch on, cos the regular sprocket bolt location interferes with the chain at such small sizes
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Hope they are paying some royalties to Ody for that shit. Probably not.
Why would they? If anything it should be the other way round.
ive seen a few more sprockets coming out in socket drive, its cool because the interface can facilitate inserts that can convert to spline drive meaning you dont need to switch to socket drive cranks straight away.
i guess the issue for most companies is making a compatible crankset. be hard to include the interface on a 3pc (unless you build it into the arm). maybe if more people knew about it and more companies were pushing it, it might catch on. if sprockets go below 25t again it could catch on, cos the regular sprocket bolt location interferes with the chain at such small sizes
So the installation/removal of sprockets on 2 piece cranks is too inconvenient, unless there's a hexagon bit there?
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smartie pants. the 2pc design would in fact be advantageous for socket drive, were any companies actually using it. other than a splined adaptor (which is good for manufacturers not having to offer multiple sprocket bores), im not sure what the best way to include socket drive on a 3pc crankset-unless the nonagon is built into the crankarm itself.
yes bmx is stupid, but at least we dont weigh our seatclamps anymore
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You would, if you still had seatclamps. I can tell.
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Come on tom. Your all into those carbon fiber bikes. You would weigh a seat clamp too
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I did, that's what Ben was on about. Though I was more taking the piss out of Evans own brand parts than actually caring how much it weighed.
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Does anyone know if the Thunderbolt cranks still keep your ankles the furthest away from the crank arm/spindle boss area? I think I remember Odyssey advertising the Wombolt/Twombolt arms as being more angled to keep your feet further apart but I could be completely making that up in my head. I'm really sick of getting ankle bite.
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yeah ive got an rnc ti seatclamp anyway so kiss my ole
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Hope they are paying some royalties to Ody for that shit. Probably not.
Why would they? If anything it should be the other way round.
LOL WUT so according to you:
Odyssey should pay BSD, because BSD decides they were the company to go and fabricate (and maybe patent?) a shitty Antigram guard that is NOT up to Odyssey standard?
IF there's a patent on their anti guard, that would mean Odyssey might even have to pay to produce a product, to fit on a product they actually thought of themselves?
Let alone having to compete with guards of other companies for théir own hubs cutting hubguard revenues effectively in half.
Odyssey might as well start making shit for BSD products.
Also there might be kids screaming blah antigram this blah after possibly having a shit designed product crap out their well designed product.
Which would hurt Odyssey's rep.
I fail to see how Odyssey would owe a dime to BSD.
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fed tom is just being a sourpuss, dont mind him
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hahah ok, thanks Dude!
Sorry Tom, i love me a discussion!
This should cheer you right up
(http://www.alpacasbythesea.com/images/0703/hibbitsfamily.jpg)
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Hope they are paying some royalties to Ody for that shit. Probably not.
Why would they? If anything it should be the other way round.
LOL WUT so according to you:
Odyssey should pay BSD, because BSD decides they were the company to go and fabricate (and maybe patent?) a shitty Antigram guard that is NOT up to Odyssey standard?
IF there's a patent on their anti guard, that would mean Odyssey might even have to pay to produce a product, to fit on a product they actually thought of themselves?
Let alone having to compete with guards of other companies for théir own hubs cutting hubguard revenues effectively in half.
Odyssey might as well start making shit for BSD products.
Also there might be kids screaming blah antigram this blah after possibly having a shit designed product crap out their well designed product.
Which would hurt Odyssey's rep.
I fail to see how Odyssey would owe a dime to BSD.
None of that even makes any sense.
No, of course Odyssey don't owe BSD anything. Just as BSD don't owe Odyssey anything. By your logic all companies owe each other "royalties" because grips fit on handlebars, pedals fit in cranks and tires fit on rims?
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Kenda be paying mad royalties on their innertubes
(http://www.wildnatureimages.com/I%20to%20R/MOUNTAIN-GOAT..jpg)
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You are aware the odyssey guard is aluminum and the bsd guard is plastic right? I dont see why they would have to pay royalties for making their own type of guard when they are clearly two different designs.
Edit: i should probably post then watch tv. Im a few posts late.
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Does anyone know if the Thunderbolt cranks still keep your ankles the furthest away from the crank arm/spindle boss area? I think I remember Odyssey advertising the Wombolt/Twombolt arms as being more angled to keep your feet further apart but I could be completely making that up in my head. I'm really sick of getting ankle bite.
From BMXboard:
Wombolts/Thunderbolts were definitely designed with ankle clearance as part of the design specification. Profiles and Primos have about 4mm clearance between the outside edge of the pedal boss and the end of the axle bolt. Thunderbolts are about 14mm...
[Smile]
G.
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I wonder if apple would sue samsung because royalties.
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didn't/dont companies doing pivotal seats have to pay something to macneil or whatever to use the design?
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didn't/dont companies doing pivotal seats have to pay something to macneil or whatever to use the design?
yes they do. Glad that Miron might come out of bmx comfortably.
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Not anymore iirc.
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Not anymore iirc.
You remember incorrectly.
Pivotal is still something that has to be paid for, as is Tripod. Socket drive is FREE to use.
Socket drive is starting to pick up now that Spline drive is turning into such a clusterfuck of sizes. By doing socket drive sprockets companies have a choice of making cranks that directly incorporate the socket drive or any spline they like and then an appropriate adaptor.
Currently, there is one size for 3/4" (19mm) splines.
Then there is 22mm spline for Taiwan made cranks OR 22mm Profile spline (unfortunately they are just different enough for this to be a pig, the Profile one will fit onto Taiwan cranks (although it's a pretty loose wobbly fit) but the Taiwan one will NOT fit on Profile 22mm splines (in fact even the Profile spline sprockets on Profile cranks are a very difficult install due to tightness).
Then of course there is the 15/16" (24mm approx) spline that is starting to come on line.
For bike shops to stock several sprocket designs in different tooth numbers, colours AND then add numerous spline drive options is obviously getting pretty crazy. So doing socket drive for all sprockets and then just stocking a few adaptors is a much more appealing option.
So far there are about 3 companies doing socket drive sprockets but several more ore working on it.
I hope this makes sense.
:)
G.
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Hmmmm. My bad I thought I read something about the MacNeil patent being up and whatever. Maybe I'm cracked out.
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If you dont know, now you know, N word.
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22mm what wont fit on profile 22mm whats? I dont follow.
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I think g is saying that profile 22mm spline drive is different to Taiwan made 22mm spline drive
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its coz profile uses imperial measurements so their 22mm is actually whichever imperial fraction is closest to 22mm, which is 7/8" or 22.225
basically, profile is retarded
#muurica
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Im confused only because i have the columns with a mutiny sprocket. I dont know if he was saying the taiwanese spindles wont work with profile sprockets or what.
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i guess it depends on the tolerances between different manufacturers/factories
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Profile spindles will work with Taiwanese 48 spline cranks but it'll be a loose fit. Taiwanese 48 spline spindles will not work with Profile cranks. He was just highlighting how the subtle differences in spindles just complicates things even further for shops, let alone all the different sprocket drive options (19mm, 22mm, 24mm).
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PLEASE NOTE: THIS IS ALL IN RESPECT OF 22mm. IF YOU HAVE 3/4"/19mm THEN YOU ARE FINE.
I think g is saying that profile 22mm spline drive is different to Taiwan made 22mm spline drive
YES.
its coz profile uses imperial measurements so their 22mm is actually whichever imperial fraction is closest to 22mm, which is 7/8" or 22.225
basically, profile is retarded
#muurica
NO. Profile is not using 7/8" (22.225mm) like they did on the OLD SS cranks. They are using 22mm but it is fractionally different to the 22mm that Taiwan uses. Different tooth angles and major and minor diameters.
i guess it depends on the tolerances between different manufacturers/factories
NO.
It isnt down to tolerance, it's actually different at a fundamental level.
Profile spindles will work with Taiwanese 48 spline cranks but it'll be a loose fit. Taiwanese 48 spline spindles will not work with Profile cranks. He was just highlighting how the subtle differences in spindles just complicates things even further for shops, let alone all the different sprocket drive options (19mm, 22mm, 24mm).
NO.
The Profile spindle MIGHT hammer into a Taiwan crank arm, but I very much doubt it, and it sure as hell wouldn't be easy to get off again. The Profile spindle is a little bigger.
Im confused only because i have the columns with a mutiny sprocket. I dont know if he was saying the taiwanese spindles wont work with profile sprockets or what.
You aren't the only one. Its a complete mess.
If you have anything other than Profile cranks, then ANY sprocket will fit... I think. (even Profile though it will be pretty loose and will be able to wobble)
If you have Profile 22mm cranks then the Profile sprocket is a very tight fit but it is also the only sprocket you should try to get on there.
Tree sprockets seem to be a third size even though they are Taiwan made too.
As you can probably imagine this is a huge headache for everyone. By doing the Socket drive we can avoid all this crap. I think our plan is to supply our socket drive sprockets with a 3/4" 19mm adaptor and then sell a 22mm Taiwan adaptor as a separate part, hopefully Profile will then make a socket drive adaptor to suit their cranks.
But for the average rider my advice would be to just buy Socket drive Thunderbolts and one of our socket drive sprockets and dont worry about any of it.
:)
G.
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Would it be reasonable for a machine shop to machine a sprocket to accept socket drive? Or is it something better suited for the actual time of manufacture?
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Bolt drive suddenly seems pretty nice.
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Would it be reasonable for a machine shop to machine a sprocket to accept socket drive? Or is it something better suited for the actual time of manufacture?
Shouldn't be too difficult.
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The socket idea is awesome except there probably wont be a lot of LHD love for a while.
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in theory its a better system among the mechanically "aware" bikeguide community, but in reality kids will just buy whatever shiny new part their mates say is cool, and bash that sprocket on with a hammer
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Would it be reasonable for a machine shop to machine a sprocket to accept socket drive? Or is it something better suited for the actual time of manufacture?
Yes, shouldn't be a problem as long as the sprocket you have in mind has enough material around it.
in theory its a better system among the mechanically "aware" bikeguide community, but in reality kids will just buy whatever shiny new part their mates say is cool, and bash that sprocket on with a hammer
Sadly you are probably right, but in the case of a Taiwan 22mm on a Profile crank it would probably never come off again...
:)
G.
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it wont matter though cos theyll have to replace their cranks before they replace the sprocket, because the $20 plastic pedals that are rusted into their cranks will wear out first
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i like the socket drive but i just hope it won't go clicking back and forth after time. i was always discontent with sprocket bolts for that reason. i like the idea of having the torque of the sprocket directly on the crankarm. That's mainly what i thought spline drive would give problems with; fucking up axles and stuff, but it obv hasn't as far as i know.
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I just wanna say I wish socket drive had existed from day one. I ran the flatare twombolts (160mm) with both a flatware socket drive sprocket and a zodiac socket drive sprocket for about 18 months* and it worked an absolute treat. I'm extremely talented at bashing cranks/sockets into things and it never once gave me any issues.
If I ever buy new cranks (unlikely) they will be socket drive for sure.
*ground through the world on LH arm, got scared and bought bsd cranks (short an sweet)
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I've got a ton of Socket Drive sprockets, from 15t up to 30t. Been making 3/4", 22mm, 15/16" adapters and some spline drive adapters since the beginning. Still really only sell to flatland dudes though. I've milled quite a few sprockets, both bolt drive and spline drive into Socket Drive. Most work just fine without issue. It really is a nice system.
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When will those new Ross tires be available?
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its coz profile uses imperial measurements so their 22mm is actually whichever imperial fraction is closest to 22mm, which is 7/8" or 22.225
basically, profile is retarded
#muurica
Is it not Profile that uses 7mm broached crankbolts? Who in their right mind said "7mm is a good idea"?
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Socket Drive La Guardia please!!!
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its coz profile uses imperial measurements so their 22mm is actually whichever imperial fraction is closest to 22mm, which is 7/8" or 22.225
basically, profile is retarded
#muurica
Is it not Profile that uses 7mm broached crankbolts? Who in their right mind said "7mm is a good idea"?
7mm IS a good idea in many ways. I would love to be able to spec 7mm for things like pedal broaches where a 6mm is too small to get it properly tight and an 8mm takes away too much material from the component. However, it IS also a pretty uncommon size...
:)
G.
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I don't doubt that it has a mechanical advantage over 6mm. I prefer bigger sizes when working on things, but nobody offers replacement tools for it. Park Tools does not make a 7mm allen key in any of their tools/sets.
Now move over to 1/4 or 5/16 and I would understand that.
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(http://themerged.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/11/10809704_376891689146149_828148697_n.jpg)
http://themerged.com/spotted-gsport-simian-cassette-hub/
nearly pooped my pants.
spill the beans, G!
I know i'm probably miles off, but 4 pawls by any chance?
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3 dumbass
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I don't doubt that it has a mechanical advantage over 6mm. I prefer bigger sizes when working on things, but nobody offers replacement tools for it. Park Tools does not make a 7mm allen key in any of their tools/sets.
Now move over to 1/4 or 5/16 and I would understand that.
People would kill me, but if it were up to me, I'd use torx for everything.
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Torx is the worst invention. Causes so many problems on cars.
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I heard they started cooking meth to subsidize their warranty. George hooked them up with his classic blue recipe and they've been ballin' since.
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3 dumbass
Why dumbass?
4 pawl hubs are the only ones that never skipped on me.
I know G has reasons for 3 pawls but imho it would work great in a perfect world.
It would work flawlessly if the 3 teeth would be perfectly spaced out inbetween with a perfectly matched ratchet ring.
In my experience, 3 pawl hubs generally have 2 pawls engaging at once, then one is the tiniest bit later.
Which results in lots of confidence-dropping skips/clunks coming from the driver.
I hate that shit, and frankly if my next hub does that as well, i might just give up buying parts anymore.
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3 dumbass
Why dumbass?
4 pawl hubs are the only ones that never skipped on me.
I know G has reasons for 3 pawls but imho it would work great in a perfect world.
It would work flawlessly if the 3 teeth would be perfectly spaced out inbetween with a perfectly matched ratchet ring.
In my experience, 3 pawl hubs generally have 2 pawls engaging at once, then one is the tiniest bit later.
Which results in lots of confidence-dropping skips/clunks coming from the driver.
I hate that shit, and frankly if my next hub does that as well, i might just give up buying parts anymore.
lol, technical understanding 0. can you even count on one hand?
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Torx is the worst invention. Causes so many problems on cars.
I've never rounded one. I vaguely recall learning at some point that they resist rounding better than hexs.
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3 dumbass
Why dumbass?
4 pawl hubs are the only ones that never skipped on me.
I know G has reasons for 3 pawls but imho it would work great in a perfect world.
It would work flawlessly if the 3 teeth would be perfectly spaced out inbetween with a perfectly matched ratchet ring.
In my experience, 3 pawl hubs generally have 2 pawls engaging at once, then one is the tiniest bit later.
Which results in lots of confidence-dropping skips/clunks coming from the driver.
I hate that shit, and frankly if my next hub does that as well, i might just give up buying parts anymore.
lol, technical understanding 0. can you even count on one hand?
Can you guys do anything other than writing condescending remarks?
If you fail to understand what i wrote up, that's one thing. Might be a language barrier.
But please, enlighten me with your obviously better informed brain.
I feel that 2 points are easier to line up than 3 points. If you have any arguments otherwise i'd like to know.
G's motivation was (iirc) that 3 pawls distribute the forces more equal so the inner driver bearings don't take that much of a beating.
And 3 pawls taking the load is better than 2 pawls taking the load.
Can't really argue that.
But when it comes down to performance, in my experience, when you turn a driver ever so slightly, 3 pawled drivers really seem to have timing problems. Hearing 2 clicks instead of 1 click means 2 pawls engaged before the other or vice versa. Without any other suspect, i can only conclude the skipping must have been the consequence of that.
I know this is essentially a pointless discussion. But nevertheless i'd like to hear more arguments than just me being a dumbass or having no technical understanding. I mean, you guys sound like little kids acting like that.
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My 4 pawl driver skipped way more than my 3 pawl ever did.
Torx is the worst invention. Causes so many problems on cars.
I've never rounded one. I vaguely recall learning at some point that they resist rounding better than hexs.
In theory. Add in rust, over torquing, and parts stretching/compressing and they're way more of a hassle than they're worth. Unless you use an impact gun to remove them, there's a good chance of stripping because they do NOT like to be used with a ratchet or L shaped key. They like perfect rotational force whereas allens seem to be more ok with a lever being used. At least in my experience anyways. I run into a lot of problems with Torx bolts on automotive brakes.
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fwiw i've had the same experience as thomas with my bsd which has 3 pawls. When I turn the driver very slowly, you can feel/hear two clicks, the first one loud and the second one very quietly with just the tiniest bit of movement from the first click. I never had any issues with my primo mix which has 4 pawls
G, is there black magic coating on all colors of the sunday tall t bars, or only the black color called "black magic". I am hoping to strip a pair raw and don't want to deal with the black magic coating
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@bsd510 All the 41thermal parts have the black magic under whatever other paint they might have.
It isn't really fair to say "I had brand X 3 pawl hub and it sucked so all 3 pawl hubs must suck, but I had a good experience with a 4 pawl hub so that must be better.." There are obviously a ton of other factors.
Yes. If you can turn a driver slowly enough you will always be able to get the pawls to "click" back out at minutely different angles, this applies to any number of pawls other than one, including hubs where only 2 pawls engage at once, it is just going to be more noticeable the more pawls you have.
However, there will obviously be variations in how big this gap is, we have special tooling to help get all three pawls into the best possible alignment for both the G-Sport and Antigram hubs, and this does a lot to help make our hubs very reliable for this.
Now consider once the pawls are engaged.
A good parallel is to look at chairs or tables. A chair with just one or two thin legs will always fall over, there is no way for it to be stable. In a driver, this means that as you pedal, the load is alternating between the two pawls and shifting around, this increases wear on all the components including driver bearings etc.
A chair with 3 legs doesn't fall over, and when you stop thinking about chairs and think about drivers it also means that the driver tends to "self centre" between those 3 pawls, spreading the load as evenly as possible and reducing stress and wear.
Going to more than 3 legs/pawls (engaging), is pointless and can be worse. If you have ever sat at a wobbly 4 legged table you will know what I mean, because the legs are now 90 degrees apart rather than 120, the table will always wobble a bit. Tables tend to flex enough to put all 4 legs on the ground, but a driver and pawl are too stiff for this. So a 4 pawl (engaging all at once) will still tend to "wobble" a little back and forth on the two good pawls and between the two "loose" pawls.
I hope this makes sense and helps explain why 3 pawl is superior.
:)
G.
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I dunno what the fuck you just said little kid, but you special. You reached out, and you touched my heart.
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My 4 pawl driver skipped way more than my 3 pawl ever did.
Torx is the worst invention. Causes so many problems on cars.
I've never rounded one. I vaguely recall learning at some point that they resist rounding better than hexs.
In theory. Add in rust, over torquing, and parts stretching/compressing and they're way more of a hassle than they're worth. Unless you use an impact gun to remove them, there's a good chance of stripping because they do NOT like to be used with a ratchet or L shaped key. They like perfect rotational force whereas allens seem to be more ok with a lever being used. At least in my experience anyways. I run into a lot of problems with Torx bolts on automotive brakes.
Brakes aren't fair because in addition to the large (mostly shear) stresses, corrosive environment and presence of brake dust (which tends to penetrate crevices it shouldn't be able to, then bakes/rusts things together), they are also seeing a ton of thermal cycles. I kinda think that the reason Torx is used so relatively extensively in brakes is because of the cam out resistance.
That's all speculation though, and just because I've had success with them doesn't make them the best, just what I prefer and use when I can. In my limited (and not very successful) FSAE brake design experience, I speced 12 point bolts for all the brake fasteners, but that was because that's what they used on F1 cars, so they had to be good.
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its coz profile uses imperial measurements so their 22mm is actually whichever imperial fraction is closest to 22mm, which is 7/8" or 22.225
basically, profile is retarded
#muurica
Is it not Profile that uses 7mm broached crankbolts? Who in their right mind said "7mm is a good idea"?
They use 9/32" crank bolts because they're so American, that all they know is imperial.
A 7.5mm allen is VERY close, so it works.
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Thanks for your reply George :)
Just want to clarify that i was in no way talking about the performance of the Ody/Gsport products, i have yet to buy one.
Also i keep in mind that a isolated bad experience with any manufacturer should not mean a concept must be questioned.
I have actually had a Salt hub that worked beautifully, 3 pawled. Think it might even have been joytech.
I can be a bit of an ass, questioning authority, but it can only help me reach a better understanding.
Thought about it a bit more, i guess skipping could also have something to do with bigger and smaller ratchet rings, as well as with the depth and width of the teeth individually.
Or spring tension and teeth wear. Last two i happen to know weren't the root causes of skipping in my previous hub though.
And there will likely be other factors, as well.
Can't blame me for trying to make sense out of it though. :)
On a bright note, if i'm ever getting my bike ridable again, my rims are going to be laced to an Antigram, or a Simian, haven't heard a single bad thing about the first.
I know you guys know your shit, more than any other company out there atm.
fwiw i've had the same experience as thomas with my bsd which has 3 pawls. When I turn the driver very slowly, you can feel/hear two clicks, the first one loud and the second one very quietly with just the tiniest bit of movement from the first click. I never had any issues with my primo mix which has 4 pawls
Just so happens that i have a friend with a BSD hub that i noticed skipped just like mine did.
Looked up the internals, same internals.
The BSD hubs essentially identical to the Kink Incite.
wide pawls shallow teeth, small hub profile (thus small ratchet ring OD) might be the problem, idk. They just don't seem to be doing very well.
After what G said, i just don't feel good blaming that little extra click with making those 3 pawl hubs skip and pop.
It makes some 3 pawl hubs skip and pop but others seem to perform great.
Still curious why that might be.
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A chair with 3 legs doesn't fall over, and when you stop thinking about chairs and think about drivers it also means that the driver tends to "self centre" between those 3 pawls, spreading the load as evenly as possible and reducing stress and wear.
Girlfriend asked what I was reading. Tried explaining this concept to her. She thought about it long and hard, and asked 'what if all the legs were in the middle, and I sat on the edge? the chair would fall over'
What do you say to that G.
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A chair with 3 legs doesn't fall over, and when you stop thinking about chairs and think about drivers it also means that the driver tends to "self centre" between those 3 pawls, spreading the load as evenly as possible and reducing stress and wear.
Girlfriend asked what I was reading. Tried explaining this concept to her. She thought about it long and hard, and asked 'what if all the legs were in the middle, and I sat on the edge? the chair would fall over'
What do you say to that G.
She thinks about me long and hard too.
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A chair with 3 legs doesn't fall over, and when you stop thinking about chairs and think about drivers it also means that the driver tends to "self centre" between those 3 pawls, spreading the load as evenly as possible and reducing stress and wear.
Girlfriend asked what I was reading. Tried explaining this concept to her. She thought about it long and hard, and asked 'what if all the legs were in the middle, and I sat on the edge? the chair would fall over'
What do you say to that G.
She thinks about me long and hard too.
there is hope for this place yet
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A chair with 3 legs doesn't fall over, and when you stop thinking about chairs and think about drivers it also means that the driver tends to "self centre" between those 3 pawls, spreading the load as evenly as possible and reducing stress and wear.
Girlfriend asked what I was reading. Tried explaining this concept to her. She thought about it long and hard, and asked 'what if all the legs were in the middle, and I sat on the edge? the chair would fall over'
What do you say to that G.
I say that's more of a triple ended dildo than a chair, and she is making some subtle overtures that you should be exploring further rather than wasting time posting it on here... let us know how it goes..
:)
G.
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G. Got stumped lol green box to your girl
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show me a cassette hub with all the pawls in the middle
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G. Got stumped lol green box to your girl
If she sits on the triple ender a red box is probably more appropriate.
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Are the Dugan tires going to come in P-Lyte?
I've really started to like light tires.
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^^ And for that matter, what happened to K-lyte tires? 2.25 Aitken K-lyte is by far my all time favorite tire! Did the demand for lightweight tires die out that quickly (after everyone and their mom (including me) rode those P.O.S. KHE tires)?
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Odyssey stopped making Aitken K-lytes because the demand was evidently not there. I imagine this goes for all K-lyte tires.
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I think the demand was there, the tires were just a little too expensive for most people. I got my k lyte aitkens from the odyssey warehouse sale for 12 bucks and they are probably my favorite tire ever, but if I had to pay retail (i think 40?) I would buy other tires every time because I can get 2 tires for essentially the same price
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Same reason we don't see many folding tires anymore.
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Here's a true story: I sold my last BMX bike in 2007 because I needed some cash and was too busy to ride all that much. I said to myself I will build a new bike when the fabled G-Sport Freecoaster is released.
Call me impatient, but I am building up another bike now and I have to ask G: How much longer do I have to wait?
Is there still going to be a G-Sport Freecoaster? Is the Odyssey Clutch the G-Sport Freecoaster? When is the Clutch going to be released? If answer NO to all the above, what freecoaster should I buy?
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Why no LHD socket drive Thunderbolts?
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Here's a true story: I sold my last BMX bike in 2007 because I needed some cash and was too busy to ride all that much. I said to myself I will build a new bike when the fabled G-Sport Freecoaster is released.
Call me impatient, but I am building up another bike now and I have to ask G: How much longer do I have to wait?
Is there still going to be a G-Sport Freecoaster? Is the Odyssey Clutch the G-Sport Freecoaster? When is the Clutch going to be released? If answer NO to all the above, what freecoaster should I buy?
I believe it was said that the Gsport coaster is not happening...and something of retail costs being way to high. I have the Eclat Blind arriving next week, lots of people are extremely happy with the Freemix by primo.
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Here's a true story: I sold my last BMX bike in 2007 because I needed some cash and was too busy to ride all that much. I said to myself I will build a new bike when the fabled G-Sport Freecoaster is released.
Call me impatient, but I am building up another bike now and I have to ask G: How much longer do I have to wait?
Is there still going to be a G-Sport Freecoaster? Is the Odyssey Clutch the G-Sport Freecoaster? When is the Clutch going to be released? If answer NO to all the above, what freecoaster should I buy?
The Odyssey Clutch hub is based on the traditional axial system but employs the drag mechanism developed for the G-Coaster as well as a load of other subtle changes that fix a lot of the existing issues.
No exact release date yet, but I am hoping it will be late-winter/early-spring next year.
The G-Coaster is not totally dead though, just in a coma, awaiting resuscitation...
:)
G.
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My Hawk Nest should be here before Christmas, I will post loads of photos because Odyssey seem pretty good at not showing us enough about it. I'd be kicking and screaming about it if I was them considering the BMX market is dominated by the DK Golf bag!
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The G-Coaster is not totally dead though, just in a coma, awaiting resuscitation...
:)
G.
Feel free to send me one for testing
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A hub to fill the void left by the Eastern Venus. ;)
Danno is right about the bag though, they should do a whole viral campaign of filling it with quantities of things (wheels, baby shrimp, gumballs, loaves of bread, chinchilla) but the success of this bag could cause DK to fold.
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Then again, it is only a bag!
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George,
Are you guys able to publish any of your testing results for the keychain? I'd love to see the tensile strength of both the hollow and solid pin versions compared to a KMC510h
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Hey George, Will there be a batch of 48 hole Simian rears once they come out? Even if it is a small batch i'll be happy. 36 just isnt the same. Still rocking the monkey in the front to a ribcage, Got the porn hub to a old hulahoop in the rear.
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Hey George, Will there be a batch of 48 hole Simian rears once they come out? Even if it is a small batch i'll be happy. 36 just isnt the same. Still rocking the monkey in the front to a ribcage, Got the porn hub to a old hulahoop in the rear.
no there wont. they had to flog off the 48h ratchets as complete wheels for $100 (bargain of the century) because they couldnt shift them at full price
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George,
Are you guys able to publish any of your testing results for the keychain? I'd love to see the tensile strength of both the hollow and solid pin versions compared to a KMC510h
I think the plan is to do some kind of stampy testing, both for straight tensile and impact. The problem is (as always) that the industry standard tests aren't a great reflection of real world riding. eg. nobody ever puts a new chain on, then pedals hard enough to apply over a ton of straight tensile load to the chain. But it is hard to come up with a good repeatable test so maybe we will revert to this.
Hey George, Will there be a batch of 48 hole Simian rears once they come out? Even if it is a small batch i'll be happy. 36 just isnt the same. Still rocking the monkey in the front to a ribcage, Got the porn hub to a old hulahoop in the rear.
Hey George, Will there be a batch of 48 hole Simian rears once they come out? Even if it is a small batch i'll be happy. 36 just isnt the same. Still rocking the monkey in the front to a ribcage, Got the porn hub to a old hulahoop in the rear.
no there wont. they had to flog off the 48h ratchets as complete wheels for $100 (bargain of the century) because they couldnt shift them at full price
^^^^
Partly this, and partly there just isn't room on the flange for 24 holes per side.
The Simian rear is the same flange dimensions as the Antigram and you really need a lot more for a 48.
:)
G.
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George,
Are you guys able to publish any of your testing results for the keychain? I'd love to see the tensile strength of both the hollow and solid pin versions compared to a KMC510h
I think the plan is to do some kind of stampy testing, both for straight tensile and impact. The problem is (as always) that the industry standard tests aren't a great reflection of real world riding. eg. nobody ever puts a new chain on, then pedals hard enough to apply over a ton of straight tensile load to the chain. But it is hard to come up with a good repeatable test so maybe we will revert to this.
:)
G.
I'm looking at it mostly for trials, so tensile strength would be a pretty good real world test. From what I have seen a lot fo people in trials community are interested by it, but are on the fence. Its hard to get away from what you know works, especially when your teeth are on the line.
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My Hawk Nest should be here before Christmas, I will post loads of photos because Odyssey seem pretty good at not showing us enough about it. I'd be kicking and screaming about it if I was them considering the BMX market is dominated by the DK Golf bag!
Did you ever manage to grab one? I'm wondering if it can be rolled up fairly compact and thrown in a backpack?
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I think the plan is to do some kind of stampy testing, both for straight tensile and impact. The problem is (as always) that the industry standard tests aren't a great reflection of real world riding. eg. nobody ever puts a new chain on, then pedals hard enough to apply over a ton of straight tensile load to the chain. But it is hard to come up with a good repeatable test so maybe we will revert to this.
Set it up vertically.
Drop like 80-100 kilo's.
See if a sprocket with a bit of dampening that is accelerating in the opposite direction can catch it.
Hope the sprocket doesn't explode.
Increase the weight to dumb amounts.
Profit?!
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My Hawk Nest should be here before Christmas, I will post loads of photos because Odyssey seem pretty good at not showing us enough about it. I'd be kicking and screaming about it if I was them considering the BMX market is dominated by the DK Golf bag!
Did you ever manage to grab one? I'm wondering if it can be rolled up fairly compact and thrown in a backpack?
id be keen for feedback on the hawks nest too. next time i fly with my bike im gonna get one i reckon
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I think the plan is to do some kind of stampy testing, both for straight tensile and impact. The problem is (as always) that the industry standard tests aren't a great reflection of real world riding. eg. nobody ever puts a new chain on, then pedals hard enough to apply over a ton of straight tensile load to the chain. But it is hard to come up with a good repeatable test so maybe we will revert to this.
:)
G.
Why don't you just see how much it takes to pry 2 links apart - after all a chain is only as strong as its weakest link!
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Yeah I got a Hawk Nest, I took photos but they didn't really show much which im guessing is why Odyssey have just released a video of it instead of loads of pictures. It's up on the product page of their website.
There's no way it would fold down to fit in a backpack, mines folded in half and is way bigger than my backpack. I havent used it yet but fly out to Malaga at the end of April so will have some feedback then. The quality is great though and I much prefer it to the DK bag. There's more stock of the Hawk Nest coming into the UK at the end of March and we will have one spare if anyone wants to buy one.
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still pipe dreaming that one day oddy will be able to justify and throw down enough money to make grindside molds for JC/PCs because we're all so tired of pulling those pins out when they get ground down. Not to mention switching the sides out a handful of times a year.
Also, that "we" should really just be an "I."
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What would a grindside mold look like? Have you thought about having Shapeways or something similar print it for you?
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What would a grindside mold look like? Have you thought about having Shapeways or something similar print it for you?
That'd be an awesome solution so long as it's a decent material for pedal grinds and all that. Honestly, I was just thinking of the normal pedal shape just a bit deeper. It probably doesn't make structural sense, but recessing the holes for the bolts a bit could have an added advantage too. It's just a huge bummer having to switch out pedal sides because you're starting to grind the allen heads unusable and there is still loads of material left untouched.
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ive messed around with pin setups to see what works best, ive found this works best
(http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y35/benyc/IMG_2709_zpsxogeeiwz.jpg)
ive had to go without any pins on the outside of the pedal on the top but the pedals are already plenty grippy. the two bolts that are there have the nuts facing down so the allen key bolt head is on the top and still usable. also, having the nuts there means you have to grind them down with the plastic, which slows down the wear on the pedal (cos steel takes ages to grind down).
i mostly grind on pegs but i like doing front pedal grinds on ledges which over time does thrash my pedals. ive only replaced like 2-3 pedal halfs over the last 5 years though so going pretty good (pretty crazy ive had these pedals that long, never thought that was even possible for them to last so long).
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the two bolts that are there have the nuts facing down so the allen key bolt head is on the top and still usable. also, having the nuts there means you have to grind them down with the plastic, which slows down the wear on the pedal (cos steel takes ages to grind down).
that's very nice. if i recall correctly, the pedals come with 21mm and 18mm long bolts. i bought some 15mm ones so the setup is 18 and 15mm's, only on one side.
you can probably get some at 12mm or so, and when you swap to a new pedal half you can pop those in for slowing down grind wear and not have to deal with bolts that stick out the grind side. or maybe you already do that.
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I thought something like the reverse concave of a regular pedal, with some left to right concave to lock it in when getting crooked. Just thick as anything. Another nice thought would be pedal pins with a keyed tip, for removal.
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the two bolts that are there have the nuts facing down so the allen key bolt head is on the top and still usable. also, having the nuts there means you have to grind them down with the plastic, which slows down the wear on the pedal (cos steel takes ages to grind down).
that's very nice. if i recall correctly, the pedals come with 21mm and 18mm long bolts. i bought some 15mm ones so the setup is 18 and 15mm's, only on one side.
you can probably get some at 12mm or so, and when you swap to a new pedal half you can pop those in for slowing down grind wear and not have to deal with bolts that stick out the grind side. or maybe you already do that.
i had a load of old ground down bolts kicking about from when i first got these pedals and was grinding on them with all the pins in. i hacksawed the stock ones down a bit for the rest of the pedals after tearing my shins open, they last ages though. ive got a pack of spare bolts as well so these pedals should pretty much last me forever, just need to buy a pack of spare body halves like once every year or so