The Street > The Bike Shop
Cruiser guys, ATF 24" vs Wave C vs Liquid, input please.
cmc4130:
--- Quote from: Fundamental on November 29, 2014, 01:40:04 PM ---I currently ride a 2010 Fit CR 24" that I picked up from CMB. The frame is a 21.25", with 13.5" BB, and 14.75" CS.
I like the ride, but something feels 'off'. My current 20" is a 21", with 11.5" BB, and 13.25" CS. I love the way the 20" rides. Very 'poppy' with room up front, and a low, 'in the bike' feel.
Of the three, Liquid, ATF, or Wave C, which would ride closer to the type of 20" I ride?
The Liquid is on one end of the spectrum with a lowish BB but the shortest CS, and the Wave C on the other end with the highest BB and medium CS. I almost feel like the S&M would be very similar to what I currently ride.
Thoughts, experiences, and input is appreciated.
Mahalo.
--- End quote ---
I haven't ridden an ATF 24". But, between the Liquid or the Wave C, I would say you might like the Liquid better (since you say you like a slightly lower bb, and you like an "in the bike" feeling). Although it's nominally a trails frame, I think it's an excellent street frame (at least for my mid-school style of street). Although I have liked 74.5 and 75 head angles on various frames, I think the 74 really works well on the Liquid. It reminds me of back in the mid school years when people rode trails frames on street (like the Holmes, etc.)--but it's better than a Holmes, because of the short back end. The stability and non-twitchiness of the front end makes you feel like you want to crank and stuff faster and go bigger.
If you want some background on the Liquid (which was developed simultaneously but completely separately from Sunday's Model C) back in 2008, check this out: http://www.ridemonkey.com/threads/a-little-late-but-the-liquid-feedback-v2-is-here.265639/ (and the link in there that links back to the 2008 thread). Also check this thread--it was the first group of guys riding Liquids: http://www.ridemonkey.com/threads/my-liquid-bike.227386/
Bunky:
I've been riding ModelC/WaveC bikes for several years now, but haven't ridden a Limit, so I can't comment on the difference between the two.
I can say that you can get the Sunday 24 bikes to feel different based on how you set them up. If you go with tall bars, you get a more "in the bike" feel, vs. if you go with shorter bars/stem, you get a more "on top" of feel.
I feel like my WaveC is pretty poppy and still has loads of room up front. When I had 8.25 tall bars with a tall topload stem, I didn't seem too tall, but gave me the "in the bike" feel for sure. I recently changed to an angled topload stem that dropped the bars about 1/4th an inch, and am about to switch the bars out to go a little lower so I can get a little more on top of the bike for bunnyhops and grinds.
What kind of riding will you mostly be doing on the bike?
Here's a blurry ass picture I found riding on my Model-C with an angled topload stem and 7.75 tall bars. I think that's the best that bike ever rode and was really good for riding street and street like ramps/ledges.
cmc4130:
--- Quote from: Bunky on December 01, 2014, 11:29:19 AM --- . . .
I can say that you can get the Sunday 24 bikes to feel different based on how you set them up. If you go with tall bars, you get a more "in the bike" feel, vs. if you go with shorter bars/stem, you get a more "on top" of feel.
. . .
--- End quote ---
Yeah, that makes sense. I have seen people riding 7.25" bars all the way up to 10"s on the Sunday Model C and Wave C.
Even when you correct for stance height by raising the grips . . . there are still differences in handling associated with a bb that is below axle level, at axle level, a little above axles, and a lot above axles. But chainstay length is the other factor that works in conjunction with bb height. A long cs and low bb is the most difficult to pull up (obviously). A high bb and short cs is the loopiest. But a neutral bb height and short cs balances out stability and pop in the same way that having a higher bb and longer cs balances out (like bmx race/trails frames).
For example, look trials bikes with super-high bb's and then look at some of the ridiculously high bunnyhops they do. The bike seems awful for dirt jumps or airing a quarter pipe, though.
Somebody like Danny Macaskill, though, has a blend of trials style and bmx street style. His bb is only slightly above axle level, but the back end is short.
People who think that you have to have a high bb for a bike to be "freestyle" are just ignoring mtb-dj/street/park scene, where DJ 26" frames have a little bb drop, but ultra short cs.
Martin Soderstrom:
I feel like Sunday tried something new with the +1.75"bb design, and they deserve a ton of credit for that. I do think, though, that they came to the public with a simple/simplistic marketing message (which I understand is necessary), which was basically, "our geo is freestyle, all old geo was for racing; everyone copied us." And that just wasn't and isn't true. (A lot of people did copy them--e.g. We The People, FIT, Stolen . . . but they weren't the only ones riding freestyle on 24"s--or 26"s.... and more recently We The People copied the Liquid geo exactly, with the WTP Atlas 24").
"When we introduced the Model-C’s Plus-4 geometry back in 2008, it was the most definitive change in 24″ BMX geometry since the early days of 24″ BMX. From this point on, Plus-4 geometry has influenced every 24″ that has followed it. No longer are 24″ BMX riders limited to sluggish race geometry. The new geometry is quick and responsive while still being stable and comfortable."
http://www.sundaybikes.com/gear/frames/wave-c/#/0
Sunday definitely has put more effort than any bmx company in promoting 24" as a legit option to the street/park/trails bmx world.
Greg Melms custom frame from 2007-ish. I rode one at Ray's in Cleveland in 08 or 09 and it was amazingly quick to pull up. Bottom bracket only a little above axles. Chainstay insanely short with 24" wheels....
http://www.ridemonkey.com/threads/speaking-of-street-cruisers.196889/page-3
Fundamental:
I understand what you're saying (CMC & Bunky).
When I got the CR24, it had a front load with 8.25" bars. The bike felt centered, maybe even over the front a bit.
I switched to a top load with the same bars and the bike got more 'balanced' with weight being evenly distributed between grips and pedals. However, it never really felt lively until I put 8.375" bars and a 5mm spacer. The last set up seems tall at first, but I can almost move it around like my 20".
I live on a hill with banks, curb cuts, and natural 'jumps' along the way, so most of my riding is bombing down hill at speed and hit whatever comes up…
That Melms bike seems like it'd be really fun to ride.
Bunky:
I'm thinking you should probably go with the ATF as that's the kind of in between bike of the Model-C and the Liquid.
If you end up not liking it, at least then you'll probably be able to figure out if you want to go with a higher or lower bb.
Navigation
[0] Message Index
[#] Next page
[*] Previous page
Go to full version